Interested in becoming a sleep consultant? 

Jayne Havens is a certified sleep consultant and the founder of Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. As a leader in the industry, Jayne advocates for healthy sleep hygiene for children of all ages. Jayne launched her comprehensive sleep consultant certification course so she could train and mentor others to work in this emerging industry.

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A Winning Business Mindset with Michelle Vroom

A Winning Business Mindset with Michelle Vroom

Michelle Vroom is a marketing coach with over 15 years of marketing experience with nonprofits, agencies and large corporations. Now she helps small business owners grow to six figures with more freedom and peace.
Michelle believes every woman deserves to be in control of getting clients and making money. She understands the challenges of limited resources and time, and shares her proven methods for visibility and relationship building to get clients and grow your business.

On this episode, Michelle identifies:

  • The biggest roadblocks that brand new entrepreneurs face when launching a business
  • The mindset shift that is necessary to overcome your own limiting beliefs
  • Simple strategies to gain momentum in your business


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If you would like to learn more about becoming a Sleep Consultant, please join our free Facebook Group or check out our CPSM Website.



Intro: Welcome to Becoming a Sleep Consultant! I’m your host Jayne Havens, a certified sleep consultant and founder of both Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. On this podcast, I’ll be discussing the business side of sleep consulting. You’ll have an insider’s view on launching, growing, and even scaling a sleep consulting business. This is not a podcast about sleep training. This is a podcast about business building and entrepreneurship.

Jayne Havens: Michelle Vroom is a marketing coach with over 15 years of marketing experience with non-profits, agencies, and large corporations. She now helps small business owners grow to six figures with more freedom and peace. Michelle believes that every woman deserves to be in control of getting clients and making money. She understands the challenges of limited resources and time, and shares her proven methods for visibility and relationship building to get clients and to grow your business. Michelle, thank you so much for being here today. I’m beyond excited to chat with you.

Michelle Vroom: Thank you for having me, Jayne. I’m excited to chat with you, too.

Jayne Havens: So, you and I have known each other for what? It feels like forever at this point. But I feel like most of our listeners are probably meeting you for the first time. So, give us a little rundown. Share your story.

Michelle Vroom: Yeah, so I went into business six years ago. It’s actually been over six years at this point really, for a couple of reasons. Number one, I always wanted to run my own business. I have that entrepreneurial blood, I guess. I come from a line of entrepreneurs, so I think it’s just innate. It’s inside of me. I always wanted that, but thought I’ll run my own business when I’m in my 50s and the kids are older. This was me pre-kids saying this. I had this vision of what I needed to do first. And so, it wasn’t until I had my oldest, my first son, that everything changed. If you’re a mom, you know how much change is, just seemingly in the blink of an eye. I no longer wanted to work at my corporate job. I had a good job, by the way. It wasn’t like I had a terrible job and things were awful, and I hated going there. I got to work from home. I had a cushy salary, corporate salary, right? I had all those things. But when my son came, I wanted so much more. I wanted more of that freedom—freedom of my time, freedom to be there for his big moments and not have to answer to anyone, really the freedom to answer only to myself.

What I did is, during maternity leave, all of these opportunities came my way through family and friends, my really small network, a lot of business owners who were asking for help with social media—that seemed to be the main thing at the time. Enough opportunities came my way during maternity leave that I was like, “Huh, I need to think about this. Do I really want to pass these things up? Am I always going to be wondering what if?” That was the question that was looming in my mind. So, I went back to work for, I think, about two months after maternity leave. Then I gave them my notice. In May 2016, I went out on my own. I remember being so excited but so incredibly terrified, because at the time, prior to that, I was the breadwinner. I was making that cushy corporate salary. Things completely flipped to where our family had to make a lot of really big financial sacrifices, which feels scary. I think everybody’s been there at some point.

Obviously, I haven’t looked back, though. It’s been a journey—a wild journey—in many ways but so fulfilling. My business is so much more than my kids now. I’ve welcomed two more boys into the world since then. So, I’m a boy mom times three. Even though I started my business because of my kids, it has grown to something that just brings me so much joy and fulfillment to be able to have the impact that I have. I would do it even if I didn’t have to or weren’t getting paid for it. So, it’s bigger than my kids. It gives me another identity as a business owner outside of the mom hat, that is really rewarding as well.

My offers and services have evolved, too. I’m no longer doing the work for clients. I’m coaching them through it and coaching women through it. My bigger mission, quite frankly, is that every single woman in business becomes the provider for her family in some way, whatever that looks like for you. Because that word looks different or means something different for everybody. So, that’s like my bigger vision of the future. It’s really helping women step into that role—both in business and in life. That excites me.

Jayne Havens: Would you mind sharing a little bit about what your services look like when you were first getting started, and what they look like now? I’m interested to hear how that’s evolved, and why you decided to make those shifts along the way.

Michelle Vroom: Yeah, when I first started, my services were basically like a hodgepodge. Whatever you want, I can do kind of thing. I was doing stuff that looking back, I’m like, “Oh, that that was fun.” Like for example, I did taglines and messaging for a brand new cookie company. I talked about being in the product world, not even in the service provider world. I was just, honestly, doing a lot of social media, blog writing, email writing, PR, public relations, which is I come from a PR and marketing background so that made sense. What else was I doing? Website copy, all sorts of stuff, just things that crossed marketing and branding a little bit. But I wanted to be able to really serve as many clients as possible and get that experience. That was what I wanted initially.

What ended up happening and what happens for many people is, you start to get burnout by having that many. I think I had 12 different offers. Probably more, because a lot of it was so custom and personalized. At some point, though, you hit a wall where it’s like I couldn’t take on more clients, but I still was not anywhere near where I want it to be in terms of revenue. I just felt like I was a jack of all trades, like doing so many different things. I really wanted to move from being a jack of all trades into a specialist. I wanted to make that shift. So, how I made that shift was, I started to move away from ‘done for you’ work and move into one-on-one coaching. Now, my one-on-one coaching package—my very first package—was still very custom and personalized, but at least it was coaching you in your marketing, coaching you to get more clients. It was like a six-month one to one package. It was just super accessible, something that was easy for me to sell.

As I got more experience serving more one on one clients, I started noticing patterns. I started putting together a framework for how they could get more clients and get clients consistently. That’s how I started shifting into group coaching. Now I have a signature offer—the Dream Client Accelerator—which is obviously all about helping you get clients consistently in the simplest way possible, and marketing online in the simplest way possible using a Facebook group.

So, that’s something that evolved as I served more people, even in my group coaching program. I just realized where people were falling short, what challenges they were running into, what they needed to be successful. I say all of that, because I want people to see the broad scale here. It wasn’t like I woke up one day, snapped my fingers, and everything materialized. I had to get comfortable working with clients that maybe I wouldn’t work with now. I had to get comfortable doing work that maybe I wouldn’t do now. I had to get comfortable talking to people, working with a lot of different people, hearing no, having clients be unhappy, in some cases, with the work that I did. Yes, that happens. I’m not too proud to admit that. But all of that gave me so much rich experience that allowed me to then really hone in on my specialty, my area of specialty, and create a program based off of that.

Jayne Havens: I love that. You actually teed me up perfectly to ask my next question, which is—I guess, I’m wondering from you now that you’re somebody that is coaching entrepreneurs through the journey of growing their own small businesses—what are some of the biggest roadblocks and challenges that you see your clients, these green entrepreneurs, face? I’m wondering how you’re coaching your clients over these humps.

Michelle Vroom: Okay. So, a bunch just jumped out at me. You said three, right? So, I’ll try to…

Jayne Havens: In no particular order. I have a short list that I want to unpack with you, too. But I’m curious what your list are.

Michelle Vroom: Yeah, and I’m curious to see where ours match up. I’m sure they will. The first thing that jumped out at me is that so many women are making their marketing really complicated by putting out a ton of different offers. I preach simplicity. That is something that I’ve always preached. It’s something that I’ve become even more obsessed with almost. The Dream Client Accelerator, which I just mentioned, is literally the simplest marketing program out there. The reason I say that is because it teaches you one strategy that you can repeat over and over and over again and fully master to get clients. Whereas I see so many other women feeling this pressure to offer all these different things, to constantly be launching something new, to be putting all of these marketing strategies into place.

Not all marketing strategies are needed at every phase of business. That’s the thing that a lot of people don’t talk about. When you’re early on, you don’t need some expansive funnel. You don’t need to be running Facebook ads, right? I’m sure there’ll be people who are like, “I can’t believe she just said that.” Well, that’s true. Because you’ve got to get momentum. Then as you build momentum, as you bring in more clients, then you have more capital to invest in some of those higher level strategies. But you don’t need to do all of that at once. I see so many women doing that. They’re constantly chasing the next offer, chasing the next shiny object. They are doing the opposite of simplifying their marketing. They’re overcomplicating it. I think that’s a big part of what leads to burnout in our industry. So, that would be the first thing right out of the gate.

So, what I just mentioned in terms of keeping things simple, in a program like the Dream Client Accelerator, is how I help them combat that. It’s by giving them one single strategy to focus on and to re-repeat so that they can truly master it. Because if you’re jumping from thing to thing, how much are you really mastering? You’re always dipping your foot in just a little bit and then boom, you’re out. You’re doing the next thing. That’s why I think people always feel like they’re starting over again, maybe even, in some sense, starting over again every single month instead of actually making real forward momentum and forward progress. I could probably do a podcast episode just about that. Maybe I will, because now I have some ideas. But moving on to the next one.

The next one, I would say, there’s a combination. Let me think about which one I want. I’ll start with what I wanted to save for last, because I think it’s the most important. I’ll go to that next. I think that themselves, they are the biggest roadblock when it comes to getting where they want to be. What I mean by that is their own beliefs about what’s possible. So, what’s interesting is, when I started my business, I had no idea what the heck mindset work was. It wasn’t something that I think was even as big as it is now, six years ago. I’m sure you probably have seen that. It’s just when you think about what stands in your way, in anything—business or life—it’s you. It’s your own thoughts about yourself, in business about your offer, about your people.

I remember that I had so much fear over people saying yes to my offer, because I didn’t think that I would be able to deliver. So, I would literally get on sales calls and be like, “I hope the person doesn’t sign.” They didn’t. Therefore, I would feel a sense of relief. I didn’t understand what that was or how that was impacting me until I invested in coaching myself. So, I think that’s also a really big thing. It’s like you are probably the biggest barrier. We live in a world where we want the three steps to instant success. We want that secret code to success. The truth is, it’s that that code doesn’t exist. In fact, if it does exist, it’s in you. It’s not in something else. It’s not in a particular strategy, or your messaging, or whatever.

So, I really think a lot of women just aren’t trusting themselves, because they have all of these different beliefs and fears and doubts. That’s playing a role for sure, as well. I also think that people are obsessing over the algorithm and engagement. I think it’s hurting their marketing. This would be the third thing. I think it’s hurting their marketing. The reason I say it’s hurting their marketing is because, things are constantly going to change on social media platforms. The algorithm is always going to change. That is something we can be sure of. A lot of people, though, are really focused on, how many views did I get? How much engagement did I get on my post? When in reality, engagement does not always lead to sales and clients.

I’m not saying it never does, by the way. I’m not saying it doesn’t play a role, okay? But I’m seeing so many people obsessing over that and focused on that. They’re not focused on making offers, on talking to people, on having any type of call to action in their posts of, “Hey, come work with me. Hey, book a call with me,” because they want the flashy numbers. They want to feel like, okay, I’m an influencer. I’m important, because I have all of these different likes and comments on my posts. Again, there are sometimes where, yes, you want engagement. But how much are you prioritizing engagement over sales?

I see that happen a lot, too. So, how do I coach my clients on that, as well as on the limiting beliefs? Well, number one, I think, just having them look at their own behavior. Even to your listeners, did you buy something based on how many likes that person’s post got? I don’t know. Maybe you did. If you did, then it might be harder for you to make the case. In your own mind, that engagement is important. But for most of us, that’s not why we buy from someone. That’s not why we make an investment. We invest because, to some degree, we feel a connection with that person, an emotional connection. We know that they can get us to where we want to go. Sometimes, just asking my clients, “How did you make a decision,” and showing them the parallel between themselves and their people, their audience, that can be really powerful in terms of how to help them overcome limiting beliefs. I think accepting that those are normal, that they’re a normal part of running business.

A lot of people think like, “Oh, I’ve got this fear, this doubt coming up. That means I’m doing something wrong.” I think that actually keeps them back in that spiral that I talked about. That was number one, like jumping ship and going to something else and doing something else. I think that keeps them there because they think they’re doing something wrong. So, I think as a starting point, just normalizing that fear is always going to be present, that you are always going to have some kind of mental drama going on about business. We all face it at every single level. That alone can help my clients relax a little bit and be like, “Okay. I’m normal.”

Jayne Havens: Love all of that. That was amazing. It’s interesting. With everything that you said, all of the notes that I had written down were associated with your number two, which was the mindset work. I had written down that people say that they don’t have enough time.

Michelle Vroom: Oh, my Gosh. I have a lot of thoughts about time.

Jayne Havens: Right. I would love to hear your thoughts about time. I think that everybody has time to do what it is that they want to be doing—whether that’s scrolling their phone, whether that’s watching a Netflix show, whether that’s taking your kids to a ballgame, whether that’s working on your business. The things that you are prioritizing in your life, you make time for it in some way or another. If you’re not making time for your business, you’re not prioritizing your business. You can’t grow your business without making time for it and prioritizing. Would you agree?

Michelle Vroom: I agree 1,000%. One of the things that I teach, just in sales in general, is when someone says they don’t have time, that’s not the real reason. It’s just not. Because if you knew— To me, when you say “I don’t have time,” that goes back to a lack of trust. That can show up in a couple of areas. Number one, if you trusted that a particular strategy would bring you the results that you want, would you really not make time for that? That’s crazy. Of course, you would. It’s because you’re not sure that that strategy is going to utilize or going to bring you the results that you want and so you’re against, still dipping your toe in different things, keeping your options open. So, you’re actually wasting more time and spending more time doing that.

I think the other piece of this is that maybe you believe in the strategy, but you don’t fully believe in yourself. You don’t trust yourself to get results. So, that’s when we tend to distract ourselves by watching Netflix, or updating our website, or doing a lot, or changing our offer again, doing a lot of things behind the scenes. I see so many people on Instagram. I see this a lot on Instagram stories. I don’t know. When I’m on Instagram stories—not all the time, but when I am—I’ll see people in their stories, and they’ll be like, “What’s on the agenda for today?” You know how people do those stories where it’s today’s agenda? None of the things are anything worth growing their business. It’s always like, “I am doing the slides for my latest presentation.” I’m like, “Those slides aren’t gonna make you money.” They’re just not, right? I don’t mean to be critical. I’m not judging people’s stories. That’s not how I want this to come across. But when I see it, I can’t help but my marketing brain goes there. It’s like, what are you doing to make money and to move your business forward? A lot of it is distraction and excuses because we’re afraid. We’re afraid we won’t like the outcome, and we also are afraid that we, ourselves, won’t be able to generate the outcome. So, it actually goes back to lack of trust in the strategy and in ourselves. That is what’s beneath the whole ‘I don’t have time’ thing.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, spot on. Everything else I had written down, I think, also goes back to just limiting beliefs and fear in trusting ourselves. Other things I wrote down were I feel like a lot of people, new entrepreneurs, worry that the market is saturated. This is something that I hear a lot from people who are interested in getting into sleep consulting. They say like, “Oh, there are already so many sleep consultants out there.” I just think that that’s such an unfortunate way of thinking. Nobody would ever say— if you want to be a physical therapist, I’m just using that as an example, would anybody ever say like, “I’m not going to get into physical therapy, because there’s too many physical therapists, or I’m not going to go to med school because there are too many doctors,” right? Nobody says that about other professions.

You get into a certain line of work because you’re passionate about it. Hopefully, you have potential. You’re going to be good at it. You throw your all into your work, and you have the chance of being the best. If there are 10 people doing the work or 10 million people doing the work, you have a chance to be the best. When I got into sleep consulting, I wasn’t the first sleep consultant that ever came on the scene. There were hundreds or thousands or however many sleep consultants. It didn’t matter. I put myself out there. I was a master at my craft. I provided excellent service and got my clients’ results. Word travels fast. Period, end of story. That would happen if I was just getting into the business today. It just wouldn’t matter, because I would do a good job. It doesn’t matter how many other people are out there doing the work. Right?

Michelle Vroom: Yes, I’ve worked with— a number of sleep consultants have worked with me and my programs. I would be a sleep consultant if I were not a business coach. Jayne knows this. I’m obsessed with what sleep consultants do. Sleep training saved my life, and my kids sleep so well because of it. So, I fell like I’m like, “Oh, I would love to do what you guys are doing.”

So, two things to that. Number one, look at where that’s coming up for you. So, I’m speaking directly to your listeners here. Look at where that’s coming up for you and why. Is it going back to any of the trust pieces that I just mentioned? Because if you think the market is saturated, how is that an excuse? That’s protecting you from moving forward and doing the darn thing, because you’re scared that you don’t have what it takes, or you’re scared of success. A lot of people are not just afraid of failure. They’re afraid of success, and what does that mean? What’s gonna be required of me, and what pressure will I have to deliver? That is a very real thing. I think that’s very prevalent. I don’t think we talked about that enough. So, that would be the first thing.

The second thing is just more, that’s more mindset. But just to be straight up with you, sure, I guess, you could look at the market being saturated, I guess. But that’s putting you in the pool with everybody else. You’re different. I can say this confidently to all of your listeners—that you are different. Because you’re the only person who has walked in your shoes. Only you have the perspective that you have. Nobody else can have your perspective. So, while somebody else does what you do, they offer the same service that you offer, are they going to coach parents and families the same way? Are they going to say the same exact things to them? Are they going to give families the same perspective? Absolutely not. That’s impossible. Nobody else can do that.

So, when you think about it that way, I think it’s all in how you look at it. When you think about it that way, you’re not competing with other people. You’re in a category all by yourself. That is just more evidence that you need to lean into what makes you you—not to sound cliche but it’s true—versus how do I rank with all of these other sleep coaches? Because at that point, when you do that, you’re going to feel forced to compete on price. You’re going to feel forced to compete on stuff that, I think, lessens the service and the value that you provide.

Jayne Havens: I love that you just said that. I actually hired a business strategist, I don’t know, maybe a year ago to help me with my messaging for Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. That’s actually exactly what she taught me, was that we needed to figure out a way to create messaging around CPSM that really separated this program from others on the market. There were already so many identifying factors that separated CPSM from other sleep consultant certification courses, but I hadn’t nailed those down in my head, yet. They were there. They were alive and well, but I didn’t have the language to talk about them. I didn’t have a way to articulate that, so that I was putting myself in a category without any competition.

Once I refined that language, once I figured out how to talk about my offer—not in comparison to other programs but just how mine is actually completely different from anything else—that was a huge game changer. I’m constantly putting pressure on my students, who go through my certification course, to create their own language, their own messaging. When they turn in their final assignments, which are sleep plans based on case studies, a lot of them will turn in sleep plans that look a lot like mine. I’ll kick it back to them. I’ll say to them like, “This is my language, not yours. You’re not going to get anywhere with my language.”

Michelle Vroom: I love that, yeah.

Jayne Havens: My language is great for me. But you need to develop your own language. You are never going to grow a successful business copying my words. You’re just not.

Michelle Vroom: Totally. You want to know the number one reason? I haven’t officially polled my audience. I should. But do you want to know the number one reason why people work with me? I’m curious what you think about this, Jayne.

Jayne Havens: I mean, I could name a million reasons for why I think people should work for you. But I’m curious what the number one reason is.

Michelle Vroom: The number one reason that I think sends people over the edge is that I’m a mom of three boys. Yes, I know what I’m doing. Yes, I’ve been in the corporate world. I’ve been in all that. But I am a mom. When people hear three boys, they think chaos. If you’re a boy mom, you know if you have even just one boy. But when people hear three boys, they’re like, it’s chaotic. Isn’t it? It is. It absolutely 1000% is. I don’t know even what’s going on on the other side of my door right now. But the reason I say that is because all of my qualifications—meaning having worked in corporate agency, nonprofit—that helps. They’re seeing and watching me grow a Facebook group that brings me multiple six figures every year. They’re watching in real time. That also adds that layer of trust that’s needed.

But I think the number one reason that pushes them over the edge, even people who aren’t moms, is that they see me doing all of it while managing three boys at home. For them, it’s relatable. They know she gets it. I talk about what happens when the babysitter cancels, and everybody gets sick. So, they understand. They can connect with it. It makes me seem like a real human. Even to those who aren’t moms, they’re like, “She knows what happens when life gets in the way of business. She knows how to handle that. I want to work with someone like that.”

So, why do I share that with your listeners? Because that’s something that’s so personal to me. That’s me. That’s a part of how I stand out. It’s by being me. There was a time, the first year in business, when I was about to do a live in my group. I was afraid that people would see the changing table off to the side. Because I used to work in my living room at my old house. I was afraid that people would see a changing table off to the side and not want to work with me. Because in the world that I came from, that was unprofessional. You don’t do that. You don’t show any part of you and your personality.

Now that’s a big part of why people hire me. Isn’t that interesting? It’s just so fascinating. So, I share this with you guys, because I want you to know that the thing that you maybe feel is “unprofessional” or like, “I can’t possibly share that or talk about that,” that’s exactly why you need to. Because that’s going to set you apart. People want to work with real humans who they can relate to. I think that level of personalization— My kids are yelling in the background as we speak. That level of personalization is going to be the game changer for you.

Jayne Havens: I think that that’s really relatable. It’s so funny that you mentioned your three boys, and you’re changing table in the background.

Michelle Vroom: They’re literally yelling as we speak about them, which is ironic, right?

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I believe it. My mom has my two kids out there right now. So, I’m in the clear for another 15 or 20 minutes. I play tennis twice a week. It’s just like the happiest two hours of my week. I just love it. Those two days a week, I come home and I’m sweaty. I have calls afterwards. Sometimes I think to myself, “Should I race and get in the shower, and look all clean for my calls?” Then I’m like, “You know what? I’m not going to do that.” Because I get to play tennis, and then sit down at my kitchen table and get back to work.

Michelle Vroom: And that’s what your people want, right?

Jayne Havens: Isn’t it the best?

Michelle Vroom: They love that, yeah. They want to hire somebody who’s not just saying, “Oh, I have time to play tennis,” but they literally can see that you just played tennis. When I unplugged from vacation— A couple of weeks ago, I unplugged completely for an entire week. People knew that because, literally, my team was posting stuff for me, but I wasn’t there. They saw that. It’s one thing to say it. It’s another thing to live it. That’s what people want. It’s they want us to live it out. You want to work with somebody who has the same core values as you. So, Jayne, maybe somebody else who wants to work with you, maybe they don’t like tennis but they want to go do something else instead of just working all day. Well, guess what? Now they can see that Jayne has those same core values. “I want to work with her. I want to be part of her certification.”

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I think it’s really important to show up authentically as yourself. I’m always reminding people don’t show up as me. Show up as you and support families the way that you want to support them. Everybody likes to look at my services. They see that I do a two-week consultation. I charge this amount of money, and I do an ask me anything call. I charge that amount of money. I’m always telling my graduates, you don’t need to do that. Do your own thing. Get out there. Do a monthly subscription service. Do a year long program. Do whatever feels good for you.

Michelle Vroom: Start testing. Get data. Otherwise, how do you know? If they’re looking at where you are now, but what did it take for you to get there? I mean, I know a little bit about your journey. So, I know some of that, right? But what kind of testing did you have to do to get to the point where you are offering the services that you have now?

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s all a journey. If I look back to where I was, I don’t know, four years ago, I can’t even keep track of how long I’ve been doing this now. Four or five years. If I look back to when I was starting, yeah, I was throwing spaghetti at the wall a little bit.

Michelle Vroom: We all are, if we’re honest.

Jayne Havens: I mean, I still throw spaghetti at the wall sometimes. I think, to some degree, you have to be comfortable with that because you have to be comfortable with just trying something new, if it works great. If it doesn’t, then you can keep trying, or you can quit and do something different. I’m always trying new things, reinventing, pivoting.

Michelle Vroom: Most people won’t, though. Most people aren’t okay with what you’re saying right now. I actually think that that could be another thing to add to the list of things that stand in people’s way. It’s that they’re too afraid to try. They’re counting themselves out right from the get go.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, actually, I think that that is beyond spot on. One thing that I’ve noticed— at the time of this recording, I have just over 400 students that have enrolled in Center for Pediatric Sleep Management, which I’m super proud of. But actually, the rate of completion— do you know what course completion rates are? Do you know what statistics are on that?

Michelle Vroom: Oh gosh, it varies depending on what type of course and program you have. It can be very low, like 20, 30%.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, so that’s where I am. That’s actually high.

Michelle Vroom: Well, and I said low. When I was saying low, by the way, I meant low from our perspective, but it is high compared to—

Jayne Havens: Yeah, so, actual course completion rates are like 10%, 15% on average, which is just shocking to me.

Michelle Vroom: I know. Isn’t it?

Jayne Havens: So, I have 20% to 30%. It’s somewhere in the mid 20s completion rate. So, that means 100 people have completed the program. Whenever people come to me and they’re like, “There’s just so many people out there doing this,” I always say to them, literally, if you just finish the course, you’re in the top 25%.

Michelle Vroom: I love that. If you just finish—what a great message.

Jayne Havens: Then if you literally just finished the course, you’re ahead of 75% of the people out there. The bar is set pretty low. It’s really crazy. To get out there and be successful, most people aren’t doing even the first step necessary to get in the game.

Michelle Vroom: Or they’re not sustaining it, right? We see a ton of people. There are a lot of entrepreneurs right now burning out, shutting down their businesses, going back to full-time jobs, and not knocking any of them. That is absolutely 100% their decision. But I want people to hear that because we think the market is saturated. Meaning, it’s saturated with people who are doing really high level quality work all around. As you said, that is not the case.

Some people aren’t even finishing. Some people are not truly in it. There’s not that level, that deeper level of commitment. Sometimes it’s hard to explain that level of commitment, Jayne, but you and I have it. If you are listening, and you feel that tug, you have it, too. If you have it, you know you have it, and you know you’re willing to do whatever it takes to get to where you need to go—not everybody can say that. In fact, I think most people can’t say that. I think we’re seeing that continually in the industry. The longer you’re in there, you start to figure that out. So, I’m not trying to bash other people at all, by any means. But I don’t want anyone listening to think like I’m comparing myself to all these people who are out there. They must be doing amazing quality work. No, I don’t think half the people have the amount of care and personalization that I know you have, Jayne, in your business and what you do.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, and I really think it’s easier to get there than people believe.

Michelle Vroom: It’s so easy. If you have the drive and determination, you’re already there. It’s just you’ve got to go through the journey, like we just said. Are you willing to do that?

Jayne Havens: So, tell everybody a little bit about your program, your Dream Client Accelerator. I’d love for everyone listening to hear what it looks like to get the type of support. If you’re one of these people listening, and you’re like, “Okay. It sounds great. Michelle and Jayne have it figured out, and I don’t,” how do I get help for this? What does it look like for you to support your clients?

Michelle Vroom: The Dream Client Accelerator is a program that I’ve had for actually four years. It wasn’t always under that name. I renamed it in 2019. Right at the end of 2019, I renamed it. Then last year—we’re coming up on a year now—I made it a lifetime program. So, it’s gone through a lot of phases. I share that with you guys, because I don’t have it all figured out. I will always evolve the program based on the needs of my audience.

Essentially, this program is going to give you my step-by-step framework for getting clients consistently from a Facebook group. So, it doesn’t mean that a Facebook group is the end-all, be-all, but what I have found is—I know this marketing principle just for my years in marketing—relationships will always matter. I don’t care what trend or what fad comes along. I feel like I’m always going to insert the word clubhouse, because that seems like such a flick. People were so into that, and then it just died off. People are so focused on what platform should I choose, this and that. It’s about building relationships. When you think about that principle, like Facebook groups, there’s no other platform that allows you to have the kind of personal relationship that allows you to engage with your audience in that way. That’s why I always recommend that to my clients.

What we do is we create what I call ‘destination events,’ which are live events that happen inside of a Facebook group where you can really showcase your expertise and build that relationship, and bring in the people who are a good fit to work with you or are a good fit for your program or your offer. Then you have a pool of people to sell to, who are already warmed up because, again, you build that relationship. A lot of people are trying to move straight to the sale and completely skipping the relationship building process. Maybe because they feel it takes too long. It doesn’t have to take too long, right? In fact, it’s the most efficient way to market.

So, the DCA, as we call it, really is about having that simple strategy that you can go back to and repeat anytime to get clients so that you really have simplicity. We teach you everything you need to know about marketing and selling. You don’t need to create or hire a copywriter to create all of this different messaging. You don’t need to do all of this extra stuff. The more you build relationships with your audience and the more you commit to growing an audience, you’re going to hear what words they’re using. You’re going to understand them on a deeper level. I always say groups are like market research on steroids.

So then, you’ll be in a place where your marketing just gets even stronger. Your messaging just gets even stronger. It’s like a one-stop shop. I designed it that way. I wanted to give people a program that they can go back to at any time that gives them lifetime support. We are there with you, helping you run your destination event as many times as you want, to get support, and to grow your business. So, that’s what it looks like to get support inside of the Dream Client Accelerator. That’s what we’re all about.

Again, I really want people to have something that brings them simplicity, something that brings them consistency in terms of clients, and confidence. It’s also a really big confidence boost. We have weekly coaching calls. I’ll be honest with you. Most of those calls are not to sit down and talk about the strategy. We give them a step-by-step framework of trainings inside of our vault for how to run these destination events inside of their group.

You want to know what most of the questions are in the coaching call? It’s like, how do I move forward when I’m doubting myself? How do I move forward when I’m not getting as many signups? My confidence is low. Life just got in the way. I have a sick kid. How do I move forward? Those are the kinds of questions that people are bringing to the table. That’s why I didn’t make it a self-study program. I want to be able to give you, yes, the answers to those questions. But also, more importantly, coach you to find the answers in yourself and to trust yourself just a little bit more. Because if you even just do that, and you don’t even implement anything else in the DCA, you will be successful. Because you will then want to try new things. Like you mentioned, Jayne, that’s so important. That’s such a big part of business.

A lot of people aren’t willing to do that, because they don’t have that trust in themselves. There are a lot of coaches and experts out there who aren’t actively building trust in their clients. So, that’s what I do in the DCA as well. So, it’s like, yes, you’re coming for that simple marketing strategy to get consistent clients, but you’re also getting so much more. You’re building trust in yourself. As an expert, you’re owning your expertise instead of running away from it. You’re staying the course. I call it the power of one. You’re focusing on one thing—one offer, one ideal client, one message, one platform. That is all you need to be successful. I will never stop saying that because it’s the truth.

Jayne Havens: I love that. I think it’s so overwhelming for new entrepreneurs. I think everybody’s trying to be everywhere, saying everything all at the same time. It’s exhausting. It’s unsustainable. It’s, frankly, not effective. So, I love that you’ve streamlined this one message, one place. I mean, it’s brilliant. That’s exactly right. I always tell people it doesn’t matter where you are.

Michelle Vroom: Oh my gosh, it doesn’t.

Jayne Havens: It doesn’t matter where you are. That’s what people say to me. They’re scared of social media, or they’re not comfortable on social media. Okay. So, then don’t do it on social media. Then you need to be talking to people in real life. It doesn’t matter where you’re doing it, but you need to be showing up somewhere. You need to know how to talk about what you’re doing, your value, your offer, your transformation. The rest is history.

Michelle Vroom: Yeah, and to be clear, you’ll be uncomfortable no matter what. You’ll be uncomfortable even if you don’t do it on social, right? You’ll be uncomfortable. When people get into the DCA, they’re uncomfortable. I tell them that. I’m like, this is not the program that if you want sunshine and rainbows and kittens and whatever, this is not that program. It’s going to push you out of your comfort zone. Because I think it’s more uncomfortable to stay the course. I think it’s more uncomfortable to embrace one thing at a time versus doing what everybody else does. But guess what? That’s what’s required for success, right? You don’t want to be like everybody else.

Also, you have a life. How many of your listeners are moms themselves, like parents themselves? A ton. You have a life you want to live. How can you do that if you were so busy overcomplicating things? Believe me. I’ve done this. This isn’t just based on conjecture. This was my life. There was a time where I literally had a nervous breakdown, because I was doing too many things very early on. Since then, it has just been on my heart to really simplify the marketing process and the sales process, because I think it’s too complicated. That’s why people are avoiding it. That’s why they’re afraid of it. We feel this pressure of I have to have more and more and more and more. Hopefully, this interview was just a sigh of relief for some of you. You don’t have to have more. Jayne and I are living proof of that.

Jayne Havens: Let’s end it there. That’s a perfect way to wrap up. Before we go, share where everybody can find you. I want to make sure everyone knows about your podcast, your Facebook group, whatever else you want to share.

Michelle Vroom: Yeah, so the Facebook group ‘Market Like a Boss‘ is where I hang out the most. It’s where I do original trainings and content just to help you. For example, I’m going live today to talk about a big launch that I had last week and break down exactly how I was able to get there. So, I’m very much about the transparency and showing you behind the curtain of how I am marketing, and what are the marketing and sales trends that I’m seeing that you need to pay attention to. So, I would love to see you in there. I also have a podcast—Like A Boss. Jayne has been on my podcast. So, she’s done a great interview that you should check out. But the podcast is really, honestly, just encouraging women and giving them hope that they can step into that provider role. Because that’s what Like A Boss means for me.

So, if that resonates with you, I would love to have you check out the episodes there. I’m on Instagram. I do some stuff on Instagram—marketlikeabossmv. But honestly, the podcast and the Facebook group are the two main ways to get in my world. We’ve had some ladies, Jayne, from your certification program come into Market Like a Boss and start binging the content, which has been really, really cool. So, we’d love to see more of you in there for sure. I’m literally obsessed with what you guys do.

Jayne Havens: I’m sort of pretty obsessed with what you do, too. For those listening, I’ve been following Michelle. She’s one of the first coaches that ever sort of came my way. I crossed paths with her when I first started my business. We’re coming up at around the same time. I didn’t know that Michelle was more of a green entrepreneur at the time, because she positioned herself with confidence and seemed to be on her way. But I think we really got started at a similar time. I’ve been following along her journey for years, and I’m constantly recommending that my students and my grads go check out her free Facebook group. There’s a ton of free bingeable content that is really, really valuable as a starting point, and I think really just helps you get in the right frame of mind, if nothing else.

Michelle Vroom: Yeah, and the connections your people can make. I know some of your ladies have been able to connect with moms and people who can give them some really great feedback regarding their messaging, too. Gosh, darn it. I’ll offer myself up to do that. Because, again, I am obsessed with what you all do. I’ve done it, and it’s incredible. The tools that you guys give to families and the hope that you give to parents and families, that is—people will buy that. Can I just say that? People will buy that. A tired mom will buy hope. If you are selling hope, they will buy hope. If any of you are even questioning whether there is a need for what you offer, I can tell you there is, with absolute 100% certainty.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, well, thank you for saying that. Thank you for being on the podcast today. I’m going to make sure to link all of your information on the show notes. As always, it’s a pleasure connecting with you.

Michelle Vroom: Thank you for having me.

Jayne Havens: Bye bye.

Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, it would mean so much to me if you would rate, review, and subscribe. When you rate, review, and subscribe, this helps the podcast reach a greater audience. I am so grateful for your support. If you would like to learn more about how you can become a certified sleep consultant, head over to my Facebook Group, Becoming a Sleep Consultant or to my website thecpsm.com. Thanks so much, and I hope you will tune in for the next episode.

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