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Jayne Havens is a certified sleep consultant and the founder of Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. As a leader in the industry, Jayne advocates for healthy sleep hygiene for children of all ages. Jayne launched her comprehensive sleep consultant certification course so she could train and mentor others to work in this emerging industry.

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A Different Kind of Baby Expo with 9in | 9out founder Natalie Fay

A Different Kind of Baby Expo with 9in | 9out founder Natalie Fay


Natalie Fay is a Center for Pediatric Sleep Management trained sleep consultant and a member of the International Pediatric Sleep Association. She’s the founder of Sound Sleepers by Natalie Fay where she works with a diverse array of families to cultivate healthy sleep habits for their children and households as a whole. 9in|9out

Additionally, Natalie is a seasoned household manager and professional nanny, where she has enjoyed partnering with parenting teams and becoming part of families in a unique way. She is now thrilled to expand her work even further through 9in|9out.

On this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast, Natalie shares:9in|9out

  • How she came up with the idea for her new business venture, 9in|9out and what she hopes to see come from this new project
  • That every conversation has the possibility to lead to something worthwhile. It’s always valuable to take the meeting as you never know what will come of the conversation.
  • The importance of differentiating yourself from other providers so that families can more easily connect with you and see the value of working with you! 9in|9out

Links: 9in|9out

Website: Sound Sleepers
Instagram: @soundsleepersbynataliefay
9in|9out: @9in|9out

If you would like to learn more about the Becoming a Sleep Consultant, please join our free Facebook Group or check out our CPSM Website.


Transcript: 9in|9out9in|9out

Intro: Welcome to Becoming a Sleep Consultant! I’m your host Jayne Havens, a certified sleep consultant and founder of both Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management.

On this podcast, I’ll be discussing the business side of sleep consulting. You’ll have an insider’s view on launching, growing, and even scaling a sleep consulting business. This is not a podcast about sleep training. This is a podcast about business building and entrepreneurship.

Natalie Fay is a Center for Pediatric Sleep Management trained sleep consultant and a member of the International Pediatric Sleep Association. She’s the founder of Sound Sleepers by Natalie Fay where she works with a diverse array of families to cultivate healthy sleep habits for their children and households as a whole. Additionally, Natalie is a seasoned household manager and professional nanny, where she has enjoyed partnering with parenting teams and becoming part of families in a unique way. She is now thrilled to expand her work even further through 9in|9out.

For those new to the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast, you can check out Episode 14 — Natalie’s first episode on the show — where she shares her experience growing a sleep consulting business while nannying full time.

Jayne Havens: Natalie, welcome back to the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. I am very excited to be chatting with you again today.

Natalie Fay: Thanks for having me back, Jayne.

Jayne Havens: I wanted to have you on the show because I think you’re such a good example of a sleep consultant who is constantly prioritizing growing in new and interesting ways, most recently, with your new project 9in|9out. Tell us a little bit about this new venture and how this idea came to be.

Natalie Fay: Yeah, so just kind of like harkening back to why I chose to get certified through your program. It was all about joining a community of postpartum professionals and just continuing to have conversations with them and seeing where those conversations go. In this case, I had a local perinatal professional reach out to me via my contact form on my website. She said, “Hey, I’m working in the postpartum space, and I see that you’re doing a lot of work. Also, would you like to meet for coffee?” So, it just started with that. It was really simple.

We went and had coffee. We shared about what we each do. Then we just organically got to talking about how there’s so many professionals, even just in — I’m in Madison, Wisconsin. So, it’s a university town. There’s a lot of different professionals. We didn’t even know about each other. There were so many other people that we each knew that the other didn’t know about. So, we were just saying like, wow. There’s this network but there’s really no connection. Then not only connection between the professionals but with clients that we work with, we’re constantly mentioning different services that exist, They’re like, “Oh, my gosh. I didn’t even know that.”

So, we just got to talk about that. We were saying how it would be really useful for both professionals and for new and expecting parents to have a space, to be connected to that and plug in. So, that’s how we hatched the plan for 9in|9out.

The name comes from — I don’t know if you’ve ever seen pictures that some people do where they’ll take a picture of their pregnant belly. Then once they have their baby, they’ll hold their newborn on their belly. It’s kind of like this was in me for nine months, and now here they are. So, it’s kind of like encompassing that pregnancy very first weeks after birth, all the way up till about the first year a really vulnerable time. So, we decided to put together an expo that is both for new parents and professionals to network. Our first event is next month in April.

Jayne Havens: Okay. And so, tell me a little bit about this expo. It hasn’t happened yet. Who knows? But what do you envision happening at this event? What are your goals? What do you want to see come out of this experience?

Natalie Fay: Well, there’s a couple ways that we’re looking at it. One is, we’re setting up to have — before the actual expo is open to attendees, we’re going to have a networking hour before for professionals. So, they’re able to buy themselves a networking ticket. We’re going to have coffee and just a time for people to meet and greet each other that are local, and just talk about their business and their experience and just join each other’s network, become inspired, become referral partners for each other. Just have that professional development. So, that’s goal number one.

Then goal number two is to bring in people from the community and expose them to all the wonderful services that exist. So, we’re going to have tables for vendors. We’re going to have some breakout sessions. We have a woman who is an infant massage therapist, so she’s going to do a demonstration. We have this other woman who is doing this awesome breakout session of writing a letter to your baby — just like a really sweet, intentional space for people to participate.

Then we also are going to have some really awesome giveaways that they can enter. I’m giving away one of my sleep consulting packages. We have a spa that’s giving away a meal and spa experience to a new or expecting mom. Just stuff like that that’s really valuable, kind of fun but also educational.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I love it. What I think is interesting — this is what I love so much about the way that you think about things and really everybody else inside of our CPSM community that’s really thriving in business — is ultimately leading with their heart and their why behind it.

When I asked you to tell me what your goals were for this program and what you expect to get out of it, it’s not like we want this amount of attendees. We want these many sales. We want this— It was like, here’s how we can serve our community. Here’s how we can network with other professionals. Here’s how we can support parents in this new way. That’s where the magic is.

But also, this is a new business venture. Do you have any financial goals? What’s the other side of this? Because ultimately, this is a next step in your journey through entrepreneurship. Of course, you’re doing it because you care about moms, and you’re passionate about the industry that we’re in. You want to see everybody connect and thrive. But also, you’re trying to grow your business, right?

Natalie Fay: Right. I have a co-founder. She worked in healthcare IT for 15 years. So, she’s super skilled at all the spreadsheets and making lists. She thrives. Then I’m more of the creative beast. So, we work really well as a team. But we do a lot of work. Right now, we’re not being compensated for it at the moment because we haven’t even had the event yet.

But really, interestingly, there’s a local moms blog here that’s pretty popular. It has 20,000 followers on Instagram. They used to run an event that was more focused on products, all the stuff you would need like bouncy chairs and cribs, which you do need. Actually, I sponsored that event at Sound Sleepers. I was one of the sponsors.

Originally, this 9in|9out Expo hatched from that where I reached out to the woman who owns that. I asked her if she was going to run it again. She said, “I really love that event, but it’s so much work that I don’t want to run it. But if you kind of want to take it over and put a new spin on it and focus more on the services available, I’d be happy to guide you. Then I’ll do some marketing for you.” We were like, wow. That’s amazing. We’re both green entrepreneurs. We’ll drink from the fire hose at this point, and we’ll take over the grunt work if you don’t really want to do that. We found it like the perfect in.

So, she gave us some of her stats from previous events. It’s been pretty profitable for her. She was like, “I can pretty much guarantee you an anchor sponsor in the community that really loved working with me. I’ll pass her name around.” So, we’ve been really lucky in that respect. To answer your question, yes, we’re putting all this work in. It’s very fulfilling. We’re having a really great response. But we’re hoping to hit some financial goals that she has laid out from us or us from her outline of past events.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, and I would imagine that this is sort of a little bit of a trial run, right?

Natalie Fay: Yeah, absolutely.

Jayne Havens: This is a live, dry run. If it goes well, you’ll do other events again locally, and then maybe also expand out into other major cities throughout the country.

Natalie Fay: Yeah, so she owns Madison Mom Blog. She also owns Milwaukee and Minneapolis. So, we’ll start there. But it’s kind of exciting because yeah, this year is our trial run in Madison. We’ll be able to kind of network in that kind of community, hopefully taking it to other cities too.

Actually, I already have a CPSM grad, Karen Winter of Winter Slumber, lives in Milwaukee. She’s going to come to Madison for this event and be a vendor. So, it’s just really exciting to just see already how it’s kind of seeping out of the community. Because everyone I’ve talked to is like, wow, that’s such a great idea. Thanks for spearheading that. This is the kind of change that we want for the postpartum experience in America. In other countries, there’s a lot more support. Here, people often are just thrown in blind. That’s the norm. So, we’re really trying to bring everyone into a new way of thinking about it.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I really do believe that there is a movement. There’s a little bit of a shift for the way that new moms are thinking about that postpartum period where I do believe that there is a greater emphasis on seeking out services and support rather than just stuff.

I love that you are jumping on this bandwagon and becoming a part of that movement that’s really encouraging parents to prioritize getting the help that they need, rather than the fancy bouncy seat or stroller or whatever. Not that we shouldn’t have those things. I know all new moms get really excited about getting themselves a nice stroller. All of that is super wonderful. But also, how about some support for sleep, or breastfeeding, or even just overnight doula support. Whatever it is that helps you to thrive as a new parent, I think that that should be first and foremost.

Natalie Fay: Yeah, and I know that you have had, I think, on the podcast and definitely in the CPSM curriculum, too, you’ve brought on the Her Village, the online baby registry. They’re actually going to be present at our event, have a table. We’re going to have a QR code that both perinatal professionals can register with Be Her Village, and then each attendee can create their own account. So, that kind of move in, like you said, has already been kind of starting. I just want to jump on that and help put that message forward, and so does every other professional that I’ve talked to.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I’m wondering, as a full-time household manager and nanny, and then you’re also a sleep consultant, how are you making time for this new venture 9in|9out? How do you make it all work?

Natalie Fay: Yeah, well, it’s a lot. Right now, I’m actually technically at work as a household manager. The kids are at school. I’m lucky to have a really good relationship with the people that I work with, just being aware of I also am a small business owner. For me, definitely within the next couple years, I plan to not nanny anymore and jump into my own ventures more full time. But that’s one thing that’s really, really nice about being your own boss is, yeah, you’re not really guaranteed a salary per se.

I see my nanny job was my first investor in my business. That money is going toward me being able to grow, which is still important for me right now. But since I am in control of how many clients I take, right now, I’m just not taking as many sleep consulting clients because I’m putting all my extra time and effort into this expo next month. So, that’s the piece that’s kind of— this wasn’t really expected.

I know we’ve talked about it before with entrepreneurship, where a lot of times you’ll start in one spot, and you really have no idea where you’re going to end up. That’s really what’s happened for me is this, I was born out of a conversation. No matter what you talk about, you’re not necessarily going to get clients out of connecting with someone.

But look what happened. I met this lady in town, and now we’ve hatched this whole new event. We’re co-founders of it, and I wouldn’t have ever expected that. So, I’m just letting it take its course. I’m really in a nice position right now with having a full-time income, but definitely I’m short on time. But I also see it as, that’s kind of how it is at the beginning of an entrepreneurship journey. It’s you’re busy and you’re really burning the candle at both ends. But I enjoy it. It is where I want to be.

Jayne Havens: I’m so excited for you. When I listen to you talk, there are so many people inside of our CPSM community who is enrolled in the program thinking, “I’m going to be a sleep consultant.” Then now we have somebody who is doing Facebook ads for sleep consultants. She was on the podcast recently. We have somebody who is a business coach for sleep consultants and parenting coaches. We have people that do copy, like website copy, firstly. So, it’s really interesting how you get into this line of work. Then who knows where it will take you.

I think sometimes it’s the first little stepping stone on a much bigger journey. Then sometimes not. Sometimes you just do what you set out to do, and you support parents one on one. That’s amazing, too. But I just love to see all the different paths that everybody’s on. The way that you said, you never know what’s going to come of these conversations, I completely subscribe to that idea.

I’m always telling everybody inside of our community that every single conversation is worthwhile. It’s always worth it to take the call, get on the Zoom, meet somebody for a coffee. It doesn’t necessarily lead to a paying client. It can lead to a referral. It can lead to a future business partnership. It can just lead to a business bestie. You never know what’s going to come of it. I love that you have that mindset too.

What are your goals for sleep consulting? I know that right now, the expo is like that’s what’s on your mind. But what do you want to see for your sleep consulting business in the near future? Is that still a big component of your sort of like entrepreneurial journey?

Natalie Fay: Yeah, definitely I get a lot of joy from it still. Really, every time that I help a client or even just improve sleep a little bit in someone’s house, it doesn’t have to be a miracle. But just letting someone see that things can be different and just letting that light in a little bit, it’s just amazing. It never gets old. So, I definitely am not abandoning sleep consulting. It’s just, like you said, this is the first run of the expo. So, we’re going to see how it goes and just see how that fits in. But in an ideal world, I would see where these expos go and keep running them.

But also, by trade, I’ll be a sleep consultant and be present at these events as a sleep consultant and still offer that kind of support and ideally replace my full-time nanny income with or more with clients in the next couple of years. Then just like with what happened with meeting a co-founder, who knows where my journey will take me? But for me, that really works with how my brain works, and just being able to create the kind of work life that works for me, and not adhering to a nine to five and just keeping it like a standard.

There are so many ways to look at working. That’s something that has really been inspiring and eye opening, just being part of the CPSM community. Because so many people even come on the podcast. They’ve worked in retail, or they’ve been a nurse practitioner. Then all of a sudden, they see that there’s another way to look at it. And they’re so much more fulfilled. That’s kind of what I’m feeling.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, that makes me so happy. I’m imagining that some people listening to this podcast may be interested in showing up at one of your expos, whether it’s this first one or one down the road. Before we give information on how everybody can reach you to get in on this project, I want to share some thoughts. And maybe you have some thoughts too about the value of participating in these events.

I personally actually have never participated in one. But if I were to participate in an expo, my goal would be to make as many actual connections as possible — show up and meet people and get to know them and have meaningful conversations, and perhaps also collect emails so that you can follow-up with them later. I think that’s one thing that really green sleep consultants or entrepreneurs in general forget to do when they participate in events like these. It’s they’ll have really great meetings with people in person. But then, they don’t have any means to follow up. Do you agree with that?

Natalie Fay: Absolutely.

Jayne Havens: My major tip for any sleep consultant that’s going to participate in an event like this is to have a way to capture the information of the people that you’re talking to, so that it’s not just one great conversation and then you never see or talk to them again. You want to make sure that you have a way to grab business cards or have them opt into your email via a QR code or a landing page, whatever. Do you have any other thoughts on how people can make the most of participating in an event like this?

Natalie Fay: Yeah, so, we definitely have people that are going to be doing all the things you mentioned. We also have — some people are going to prepare a freebie, a resource to give away. As people are walking around, they’ll be able to take that. It will have their branding on it and their contact information. We definitely are going to have QR codes.

Then just positioning yourself as a unique business owner. Yes, we’ve heard the age-old fear and really just mental block that is, “Oh my gosh, there are so many sleep consultants. Oh my, how am I going to have clients if there are so many other ones?” Well, the answer is just by being yourself. That’s how I’ve had success for my own sleep consulting business.

I’ll use Karen Winter as an example. She’s coming to our expo. She said, “Oh, I noticed that you have a couple other sleep consultants on the roster. I really want to differentiate myself, so I’m going to come at it from an angle of toddler sleep and preparing your older kids to adjust to a new sibling. I thought that was brilliant. So, that’s what she’s going to bring. She’s going to have a little breakout session. I’m sure she could even comment on this once it goes live and fill everybody in on what else she’s going to offer. But just like being unique, being yourself — she’s a toddler sleep expert, so she’s going to really focus in on that. That will be memorable for people that are walking by that really connect with you.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, that’s exactly right. I’m glad you mentioned it. I truly do believe exactly what you just said that it doesn’t matter how many people are doing what we’re doing. You think about any other field like lawyers, doctors, dermatologists, physical therapists — it doesn’t matter — hairstylist. It literally doesn’t matter how many people are doing what you’re doing if you can differentiate yourself, and you can come across as uniquely you, and make people understand why they should work with you and why the experience would be really pleasant and special and effective to work with you.

It doesn’t matter how many people are doing what you’re doing. There are enough tired moms out there for all of us. Frankly, I think that this field is one that needs to continue to grow in order for more families to get on board with hiring this type of support. I’ve said this before. When you’re a new mom and you’re trying to breastfeed, nobody bats an eye about hiring a lactation consultant, right? Everybody gets that type of support, if they’re struggling with feeding. And yet people hesitate to hire a sleep consultant for a lot of reasons.

I think one of those reasons is because it’s not yet completely mainstream. It’s not normalized. Not everybody hires a sleep consultant. I think that will change as more sleep consultants enter the field, and the practice becomes more just sort of mainstream and regular.

Natalie Fay: Right. Again, let me go hit the nail right on the head. That’s like a huge, huge mission and drive behind this event. One, we all have — sleep consultants aren’t really mainstream right now. A big part of that, the reason a doctor won’t ever have that thought is because they have an institution that houses them. It’s normalized in society. We don’t have that. We’re all working on our own and working from home. So, that’s like we’re trying to make that sort of “institution,” just like a place for other professionals to gain that confidence and be like, “No, this is what I am doing. It’s legit,” and overcome any impostor syndrome that you might feel.

For me, I found it helpful to hear other professionals on your podcast or expose myself to other professionals in the community. That’s really helped me combat my imposter syndrome. Then I become more confident in myself and that really shows outward toward my clients. Then I’m able to build my business that way. So, that’s super important. That’s why we hope to bring this event to Madison again, and then hopefully other cities and just see where it goes. But because the field needs that and so do people in the community. They need mainstream services like postpartum doula sleep consultants, all that stuff that exists but just isn’t known about.

Jayne Havens: For those listening, where can people connect with you and then also learn more about 9in|9out?

Natalie Fay: Sure. So, we have social. If you go to Instagram or Facebook, it’s @9in_9out. You can give us a follow. If you are interested in learning more, this event in Madison, we’re not limiting it to Madison. If you live in Wisconsin or any nearby area and you’re interested, go ahead.

You can shoot me an email at 9in9outteam@gmail.com, and I can send you all of our introductory documents and get you up to speed on what it would mean to be a part of the event. We are going to have a website. It’s not live yet but pretty soon. Then this first event is on April 23rd in Madison.

Jayne Havens: Awesome. Natalie, congrats on your growth in your business and just your whole aura and your confidence. I just love to see that you are growing in new and interesting ways. I can’t wait to see this event kick off. Congrats on everything you’re up to and all that you do in the future.

Natalie Fay: Thank you very much.

Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, it would mean so much to me if you would rate, review, and subscribe. When you rate, review, and subscribe, this helps the podcast reach a greater audience. I am so grateful for your support.

If you would like to learn more about how you can become a certified sleep consultant, head over to my Facebook Group, Becoming a Sleep Consultant or to my website thecpsm.com. Thanks so much, and I hope you will tune in for the next episode.

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