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Jayne Havens is a certified sleep consultant and the founder of Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. As a leader in the industry, Jayne advocates for healthy sleep hygiene for children of all ages. Jayne launched her comprehensive sleep consultant certification course so she could train and mentor others to work in this emerging industry.

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Collaboration over Competition with Moorea Malatt

Collaboration over Competition with Moorea Malatt


Moorea Malatt is a Perinatal Mental Health Certified Sleep Educator and Consultant. She’s also a Lactation Counselor and Early Childhood Development Specialist. She’s been supporting families in various capacities for almost 25 years as a preschool teacher and director, as well as a postpartum doula. Moorea has been teaching sleep education to doulas and other perinatal professionals for 11 years and has been a professional Certified Life and Career Coach and business owner for 18 years! 

Moorea is passionate about both parents and professionals getting their needs met, setting healthy boundaries and finding their personal power in life, in parenting and in business. Collaboration over Competition

She is mom to a 13-year-old, bonus mom to a 5-year-old, proud auntie, songwriter, cat and plant mom and all-around biology nerd. Collaboration over Competition

On this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast, Moorea shares:Collaboration over Competition

  • How to decrease your anxiety about your competitors in business
  • Her thoughts on whether or not there is room for more sleep consultants in the field Collaboration over Competition
  • How to leverage relationships to turn competitors into referral sources! Collaboration over Competition

Links:Collaboration over Competition Business

Website: Sleep Savvy
Instagram: @thesleepwitch

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Transcript:Collaboration over Competition

Intro: Welcome to Becoming a Sleep Consultant! I’m your host Jayne Havens, a certified sleep consultant and founder of both Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management.

On this podcast, I’ll be discussing the business side of sleep consulting. You’ll have an insider’s view on launching, growing, and even scaling a sleep consulting business. This is not a podcast about sleep training. This is a podcast about business building and entrepreneurship.

Moorea is a Perinatal Mental Health Certified Sleep Educator and Consultant. She’s also a Lactation Counselor and Early Childhood Development Specialist. She’s been supporting families in various capacities for almost 25 years as a preschool teacher and director, as well as a postpartum doula. Moorea has been teaching sleep education to doulas and other perinatal professionals for 11 years and has been a professional Certified Life and Career Coach and business owner for 18 years.

Moorea is passionate about both parents and professionals getting their needs met, setting healthy boundaries, and finding their personal power in life, in parenting, and in business. She is a mom to a 13-year-old, bonus mom to a 5-year-old, proud auntie, songwriter, cat and plant mom and all-around biology nerd.

Jayne Havens: Moorea, welcome to the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. I’m very excited to be having this conversation with you today.

Moorea Malatt: Oh, thank you so much. I’m so happy to be here with you, Jayne. I really love your podcast.

Jayne Havens: I’m so glad. Thank you. Before we get started, why don’t you tell everybody a little bit about yourself, if you’re willing?

Moorea Malatt: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I am someone who has always loved babies. Since I was pretty much a baby myself, I was obsessed with babies and playing with babies and taking care of other people’s babies. I think I’ve actually been a sleep consultant since I was probably a teenager, and a nanny and taking care of lots of children. So really, it’s been a through line in all of life to be taking care of babies, to be thinking about infant sleep and infant feeding.

I eventually became a postpartum doula after I had been a preschool teacher and director for a really long time. I was so tired from taking care of toddlers and preschoolers and running after them that I’ve made a bit of a transition. I became a postpartum doula. Little did I know I’d be working a lot of overnights, and I’d be really, really tired again.

Pretty much, as soon as I became a postpartum doula, I was in a relationship where we decided to have a baby. And this baby came much sooner than I thought would happen. I had an incredibly stressful, difficult pregnancy, postpartum, severe sleep deprivation, severe, severe sleep deprivation, and a little bit postpartum psychosis. That really led me to focus in on sleep and trying to prevent other parents from suffering the way that I did. I had to kind of figure out how to heal my suffering in a way that wasn’t what I already knew, which was various kinds of more traditional sleep training. That because I struggled with milk supply a little bit, it didn’t seem like they were really going to work for me.

Something about being a parent just shifted the way that I thought about sleep. I kind of just realized I needed to know more about the science of sleep. And so I dove into the science of infant and toddler sleep quite a bit. Then I just started creating my own method that worked for me and for being just a whole handful of my friends at the time and then a local community. Then I started teaching workshops, and then things have just gradually, slowly bloomed over the last 11 or so years.

Now I work with clients all over the world to support sleep, and do a little bit of potty support here and there too. I teach professional sleep consultants in my method or my method on how it relates to other methods.

Jayne Havens: Well, first of all, thank you for sharing your story, which I think is incredibly relevant, and honest, and real. I think also the reason for why so many of us get into this line of work is because we have our own challenges that we experience and hopefully, eventually, overcome to some degree, then we feel empowered to help others. That was my story too, in a very different way from yours but sort of the same framework.

I wanted to bring you onto the podcast today to present a little bit of a unique perspective, as I consider you to be both a competitor and a friend. I bet everyone who’s listening is wondering how the heck this is possible. But I think that many people who start their own businesses are, to some degree, fearful of competition and like to keep a healthy distance from their competitors. But I guess you and I are a little bit proof in the pudding that it doesn’t need to look that way. I’m wondering if you have any thoughts or ideas for how sleep consultants can minimize their anxiety around competition. Because I think that that’s something that so many worry about.

Moorea Malatt: Yeah, I have so much to say about this. One of the things that I tell my students is that you’re mainly in competition with yourself. And if you start focusing on worrying that you have competition, or keeping up with your competition, or worrying about what your competition is doing, we start to take our minds away from our own practice, our own business, what we could be doing better, how we could be serving our clients better. Is there something we needed to fix on our website? There are so many things that we could be doing with our beautiful minds which are not living in that fear, faithless arena of, someone else is going to come to get me and take my clients, or we’re competing for the same clients.

I think as someone who has owned — I actually owned multiple businesses before I was a sleep consultant so as a postpartum doula. But I also had a couple of preschools, toddler preschools. Some of them were storefront, and some of them were in-home. I’ve also been a life coach for a really long time so I actually had a consulting practice before I was consulting with parents on sleep. And so I followed everything business. You follow all the business gurus and all the things. I’ve been doing that for so many years.

One of the things that seems to be a through line in marketing and networking and just good business is that people are paying for you not for the sleep plan. If someone is going to hire you, it’s because you’re the one for them. Or you’re the closest so far to the one for them. So I just really don’t even believe in the idea of true competition really.

Yes, technically, we have competitors in the same field. But I just don’t really feel like we need to be thinking about competition really at all. That’s just a mindset shift, I think, that we could make. Which, when I see my students do it, it seems to just help you make money. If you are focused on your own business and networking with people who are “your competitors” rather than feeling like you’re against them, that’s going to make you more money. It’s going to help you serve more families. That’s what I think about competition.

Jayne Havens: This is why I really, truly love you so much. It’s that you and I are so different. We’re so on so many different things. Actually, I don’t think our perspectives are so different at all. I think that we just market to a different audience. It’s maybe what it is.

Moorea Malatt: Yeah, totally.

Jayne Havens: But you and I are very aligned on a lot of things. As much as people, like outsiders, may look at us and think we are so different, then whenever you and I get talking, it’s like we always feel the same way.

Moorea Malatt: Yeah, one way to think about it might be like East Coast–West Coast, a little bit like that.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I think that’s right. What you just said, that it’s really just about being in competition with yourself, I think that you hit the nail on the head there. This is something that I realized very early on in my career as a sleep consultant. I actually think I could take this thought back even a step further.

I used to work in catering sales. I worked for a big, fancy catering company in Washington, DC. I would plan parties, and weddings, and corporate holiday parties, and bar and bat mitzvahs, and graduation celebrations. I was the young kid at the company. I was the lowest on the totem pole. There were people in the company that were doing $6 million in sales, and I was doing close to two if I was lucky. I was at the bottom.

But I was not worried about those people who were doing $6 million in sales. I was just trying to do better than I did the year before for myself. I was trying to grow my own business. I was trying to connect with my own clientele, and find people who were connecting best with me in my sense of style, and my food choices, and my style with whether it be florals or tablecloths. I think it’s the same thing with sleep.

When I put myself out there — I think you do this very well yourself — we’re putting ourselves out there as authentically ourself. We are being ourselves, and people can take that or leave that. But it’s not about what everybody else is doing. I want to attract people who are attracted to my messaging, and my coaching style, and my belief system. I don’t want people who aren’t attracted to my style to work with me because that’s not a good fit.

Moorea Malatt: That’s not going to work out. It doesn’t work out if there isn’t that attraction first. It’s almost like dating, right? There needs to be that attraction first. And if there’s that attraction, it’s more likely that the other pieces will fall into place and that’ll be a good fit.

When talking about clients too, like getting the right client. When we’re thinking about like, “Oh, I just want that client because I want the money,” well, I’m at a place in my business — probably, you are too now — where I only want the clients who are pretty desperate to have me. They want me, and they’re ready to do it. When that’s happening, it’s going to be a great situation, a successful situation for everybody. But the way that that’s going to work is, initially, they’re attracted to just you and who you are, how you talk to them or what you put out into the world.

Again, that competition with you, it really just keeps showing up as you keep just being you in the world. Yeah, you and I are very different in so many ways. The way that I market myself is pretty niched, which is good for business — to be fairly niched. I think that you have a certain niche too, as well. Even on top of niches, that doesn’t mean that you’re only going to get a certain kind of clientele. If you show up and market yourself toward one ideal client, you’re still going to get other people who are just attracted to who you are as a person.

You and I have businesses that I think or methods, shall I say, that are more flexible towards like, “Oh, yeah, if you want to work with me, I’ll work with you and what your situation is within my level of comfortability.” So I think that we are afraid sometimes. Professionals are afraid to show up completely as we are, and market to the person we want to serve. Because we’re afraid that we’re going to keep other people out.

In my experience, that’s never been true. I’ve always gotten the clients who were really aligned with my main message. I’ve always gotten the clients who somehow just found me from some other way. They might not have even chosen me for this specific niche I have, which is working with families who are breastfeeding, bottle feeding and maybe even bed sharing. But I get all the clients who are not doing that. Because they might just like me because I have tattoos, right? Or they might like me because their friend sent them to me. So I think it’s so important to show up just as us.

Jayne Havens: When you approached me about doing this podcast episode together — which, thank you for doing so because I can already tell this is just such an important conversation to have — you said that you wanted to discuss how we, as entrepreneurs, “can transform our insecurities and stand in the power of our uniqueness.” I got goosebumps reading those words. Can you talk to me about that? What did you mean?

Moorea Malatt: Similar to what I was just saying with that being fully yourself and not being afraid to niche yourself, and not being afraid of your competition. One thing that I noticed — this is maybe going to get a little bit deep into psychology. But one thing that I noticed about people who are in our field which is a helping profession, like parent to parent, we’re probably people who have spent a lot of time home with our children.

At some point, we maybe have even had helping profession jobs before the work that we currently do. We might be a 2 on the Enneagram a lot of people. We might be those people who are just like helpers and givers. Some of us might be a little codependent in many ways. But I think that along with some of that, also, let’s just also say sometimes socialized femininity. We’re supposed to show up a certain way in the world. Sometimes that can come with some insecurity. It can come with like, “I need to be what other people need me to be. I shouldn’t be this full part of myself because somebody might not like that.”

In business, especially now that business is very forward-facing on the internet, the truth is that people won’t find us and connect with us if we don’t show up 100% ourselves and in our own power. I think that when you have a business, people are going to be attracted to you showing up professionally in your business.

One of the ways to show up professionally in business is to show up in your power. My tagline on Instagram is @thesleepwitch. I don’t mean witch. This was actually a tagline that I didn’t come up with myself. People started giving me this, and then I went with it. But regardless of religion or spirituality, to be in your power as a human being as yourself gives you a confidence. It also bolsters and protects your business to not be wishy-washy about all the things, to not feel like you have to say yes to everything.

I turn away clients constantly. For me, either because it’s like not a fit in some sort of way where there’s something that they hold dear that I can’t work with. Or something that, let’s say, there’s an example. They want to work with me, and they want to have good results. But they want their baby to spend half the night in the crib and half the night in their bed. That’s my one nope. Nope, the child will never feel secure that way. I only work in a way where I know that I’m treating babies as kindly as we possibly can, even if sometimes there’s cranks. But I need to know that we’re being clear with babies and that we’re being kind to them.

So I might say I can’t work with you if that’s your hard line. I think for professionals, it’s hard to be in your power like that because you’re worried about the next client. You’re worried about what that client you’re turning away might say to other people that you wouldn’t work with them.

Eventually, I think you and I have been in business for a while and we teach other professionals. But for those who are just coming into this work, I think that’s not something you get too immediately. So if you’re not there, and you’re still scared to turn someone away, that’s normal. But it’s something to reach toward, that you could be so confident and so in your power that you’re happy to refer to the next sleep consultant who likes to work with that situation. I refer people to you. I refer out all of the time.

Because if it’s not an immediate connection and where we have that attraction, we have the connection, and we can agree on what steps to move forward then, then it’s going to serve us to not be in a stressful back and forth with a family. And it’s going to serve the client to have someone who’s going to do what they’re hoping for.

I think when we’re looking at our competitors more as referral sources, that’s when we can really be in our confidence and in our power. We got to know who we are. I think that we’re sometimes journal exercises like, what kind of professional do I want to be? Who do I want to help? Who is my ideal client? What are my noes? What are my hard boundaries? Those are things that we need to know about ourselves in order to really be in our power.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I work so hard with my students who are enrolled in CPSM. I’m sure you do the same with those who you train. I can only imagine. I worked so hard to try to motivate them and inspire them to find their own voice.

Inside of my program, I offer sample sleep plans. People can read my sleep plans that I share with my clients. Then when they go to write their sleep plans, a lot of them write them using the same exact words as me. That’s one of my sticking points. I will kick it back 100 times. I always say that if I can anticipate your next sentence, then it was my sentence. We wouldn’t have written those two sentences next to each other, both of us. I worked very hard to help my students to find their own voice. I think that this is so important.

Some of them will say, “But you just said it so well. You just said it so perfectly.” It’s like, no, I said it so perfectly for me. You have to figure out how to say it so perfectly for you. There are so many different ways to say something similar but in a way that’s entirely unique. I think that that is so important.

Look. At the end of the day, if there are other sleep consultants out there using versions of sleep plans that look almost exactly like mine, I’m a firm believer that that’s actually not going to hurt my business. I’m not worried about it. I’m not worried about it. At the end of the day, if they want to try and be me, that’s not going to hurt me because I’m the original me. But for them to be successful, they need to find their original version of themselves, their authentic truth, and their words, and their coaching style. That’s ultimately what’s going to position them to attract families and to grow their business. I feel really, really strongly about that.

Moorea Malatt: I completely agree. I think that when you decide to use your teacher’s words — in the beginning, people might not have their own words and might need to just write their first plan using the words that they have so far. But to really move toward having their own words. Because you’re going to be saying all of these things to the clients who you’re supporting after you get the plan, most likely. You want to make sure that you have that language. That language is part of what naturally comes out of you.

If it’s not your language, then it’s not probably naturally going to flow out of you to the people that might even be prospective clients, that might be the clients that you work with after you give them this plan. So I do think it is really important to have your own language and way of talking about sleep, or anything you do.

Jayne Havens: One thing that I hear all the time from those who are interested in becoming sleep consultants is that they’re worried that there are already too many sleep consultants out there. They’re wondering, “Is there really a room in this field for another?” I could go on and on about this, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on it. Then maybe I’ll chime in after. I bet you and I will have the same exact thoughts as we typically do.

Moorea Malatt: Yeah, I think that most families who have babies and small children, if they can afford it, will want some sleep help at some point if they can find the right fit. How many babies are being born? There are so many babies. Certainly, there are places where there are less sleep consultants. There are places that are more than middle of the country has less sleep consultants, I think. Because there are less trainers in that area, and there’s maybe less population.

For instance, I lived in the Bay Area in California. I live in Seattle now, where there are tons of sleep consultants. Lots of postpartum doulas who are sleep consultants. I don’t have a problem here. I have a lot of students here. What’s super beautiful is that on the local groups, I can watch my students not be in competition with one another. Everybody is getting work. They’re getting work. They’re not being mean or in competition. Sometimes someone will tag me and one of my students. I feel a responsibility as the teacher to say like, yeah, here’s my information. But my students are really awesome. So let’s go there.

But I also lived in the Bay Area for a few years, and there are tons of sleep consultants there. From my perspective, that’s like where there’s such a plethora. Constantly, I’m still looking at the Facebook groups. People were saying like, “If someone needs this—” They’re constantly looking for someone. There’s tons of people looking for professionals even in an area that I might consider really highly saturated.

That has to do with the fact that some people are on vacation. Other people don’t take that kind of client. Other people are booked right now. Some will do in-home but won’t go that far. So there are just a zillion reasons why I don’t think we need to worry about that. There’s just more babies all of the time. I just personally haven’t noticed the kind of competition that would happen in a field where you might think it’s oversaturated.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I have two thoughts on this. One, I think — just as you said, there are new babies being born every single day — most new parents, in my experience, have actually never even heard of a sleep consultant. Like before you’re a parent, you generally don’t even know what a sleep consultant is. That’s been my experience.

Moorea Malatt: Yeah, before.

Jayne Havens: Every day there are new parents being born. They’re entering into this universe of all of the different resources that there are for them, whether it’s postpartum support, sleep support, baby products, services, blah, blah, blah. There are always new families that are sort of entering this realm that you and I are working in. I agree with you. My grandfather who’s no longer living, he used to always say there’s an ask for every seat. I think that that’s very fitting here, right?

Moorea Malatt: Yes.

Jayne Havens: I’m not the right fit for everybody, and neither are you. It’s really important at the end of the day that these families find the right fit. Not every single person who’s looking for sleep support is going to be the right fit for me, or for you, or for one of our students. I think it does take some time to build up a clientele.

At this point, I would imagine your business is the same. My business thrives on referrals. So families who have already worked with me share my name with their friends, and then they call me. Generally speaking — not always but generally speaking — it’s usually a good fit. Because those friends have similar parenting styles, have similar comfort levels around sleep training or setting respectful boundaries for their children. So it just seems to get easier and easier. It just starts to work after you’ve sort of infiltrated a community of friends or an extended network where people can share your name.

I get that, in the beginning, it can feel hard to establish yourself. I guess that’s where really like honing in on your unique identity and yourself. You got to figure out like who are you, what sort of vibe are you putting out there for people to receive, and how do they understand you as a service provider. I think that’s really important. Because if you never really create that for yourself, then how are people going to be strongly attracted to you, or me, or anybody else?

Moorea Malatt: Absolutely. I think the number one thing that you’re saying that I totally agree with is that most of your work should come from referrals from happy people. Again, we’re talking about competition. If you are living in fear of your competition and that’s where your mindset is, you are not focusing your energy on being that best sleep consultant for the clients that you currently have.

When you do really well at your job, that’s when you get those referrals and those testimonials. I’ll just say my second most common way that a family might come to me is actually other professionals — other sleep consultants, postpartum doulas, other professionals in our realm.

I noticed this years ago. When I was living in the Bay Area and there were so many professionals doing this, lots of postpartum doulas were also doing sleep. I was actually shocked at that time because this was many years ago. I was shocked at how many referrals I was getting from people who also call themselves sleep consultants. But there were always reasons. It was like, “I can’t take them on right now. We’re not a good fit. We’re too close. She’s my best friend,” or whatever. And so I think I learned pretty early on that I needed to be really thinking about networking with these people and making sure that—

It would be very easy to not talk about ourselves or our businesses with other professionals who are competitors, because we don’t want them to know what we do, what we’re like, or how we help people. But if we don’t say those things, if we don’t talk about that, then they can’t know when to refer people to us. So I think we got to be honest and upfront.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I completely agree with that. If you have one piece of advice for prospective sleep consultants who are contemplating entering the field, what would you say to them — somebody who hasn’t even done it yet just thinking about it?

Moorea Malatt: As in any new entrepreneurship, I think I would tell them to be patient, to work hard and be patient. Because things don’t like snap into place suddenly, overnight. But if I could add one more thing to—

Jayne Havens: Yeah, please do.

Moorea Malatt: —it would be just what we’re talking about. To focus on knowing who you are in your work and networking, letting people know who you are, talking about what you do constantly. I think a lot of people these days are focused on their social media presence.

Let me tell you. That is not how you’re going to get clients. It’s not your perfect reels. It’s great to have that so people can go to it. If they’re thinking about working with you, they want to know more about you, they can check out your social media presence. That’s great. But that is actually — I’ve been doing this for a long time. It’s actually not how’s it going to go.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I agree entirely. I actually haven’t posted to my Instagram grid since September of last year. At this point, it’s like a bragging point for me. I’m obviously not posting on my Instagram so that I can say that I haven’t posted on my Instagram grid since September of last year. And I really don’t intend to. I mean, if I feel called to, I will.

But then, it’s going to break the streak. I bet I’m going to have to figure out another way to articulate that I really have not been using social media in that way to grow a business. I agree with you wholeheartedly that it’s all about making those strategic and meaningful connections, whether it be others that are supporting families in other capacities or just extended network of friends of friends of friends. I do agree with you that that is the key. Building relationships is the key to growing a successful business.

I’m so glad that you said to be patient. We’re having this conversation regularly inside of our CPSM community. I think a lot of people enroll in the program and they think, “Okay. I took a course. I’m going to have a full-time income as a sleep consultant in two or three months.” And it’s like, how long did it take you to get to wherever you are in your career now? How many years since you graduated college or whatever that looks like for you, right?

It could be, you’ve been at this 20 years to earn the income that you’re earning. And now you’re going to start from ground zero, and you’re going to do it way faster. If you work hard, you’re going to do it way faster. When you own your own business, I think you can grow at a rate that you could never grow in the corporate world. But it takes time, and it takes persistence and grit and patience and all the things. So I’m really glad that you said that.

Moorea Malatt: I think a lot of people in our field are introverts and feel like, “Oh, no. I can’t do that if I have to be really networking, and I have to keep showing up and having these conversations and talking to all these people. I can’t actually build my business.” That’s completely untrue. Because what you and I, Jayne, are talking about can be done in one-on-one conversations over and over and over again just with people in your community, with the people you’re working, the people that you know, the people who they know. Those are just real day-to-day sometimes parent-to-parent conversations that we’re having that can build you a business. I think it’s really important to know.

Anyone can do this. Even if you feel like, “Oh, I can’t show up on reels on the internet,” you can actually build a business. But it does take the time. It takes that effort. It takes that patience. It also takes some trials and tribulations sometimes. I just taught this workshop. It’s called Better Biz Boundaries Baby. I was just seeing so much on our professional groups with folks who — I don’t know what trainings people are given. But they’re not apparently being given trainings on any boundaries when they come out of a lot of these sleep programs. It sounds like you’re really supporting people with this. But I’m definitely seeing a lot of trainers in our field not helping people understand when to not bring a client on, how to have packages that are not draining you, how to have boundaries around your time.

These are things sometimes even if you have been taught — some of my students in Sleep Savvy Certification, I’ve noticed that some of them will take in that information from me and implement it right away. And they suddenly have great boundaries from the start. Other folks need to not have great boundaries at first and then learn the hard lesson, and come back to me and say, “Oh, gosh. I wish I had not done that thing or not offered that thing.” Or, “Oh, I don’t know why I said unlimited text messaging.” There are those trials and tribulations. In business, you have to be willing to fall down and get back up a little bit.

I have this quick story for you that I wanted to bring in in terms of this idea of competition, along these same lines. Earlier in my business — I’d say three or four years into my business — I had other professionals steal from me. I had two. I’ve had two professionals literally take my curriculum and run with it and make money with it. Then a client or friend comes back to me and shows me this website copy, or sleep plan, or whatever. I was just like, whoa. So that has happened.

I’ve also had two professionals tell other people that I trained and certified them when I didn’t. These are things that just hurt your heart so much. For me, it was just like sadness and contraction for a second. No, I’m not going to go after them legally. Because I don’t want to spend the money on the lawyers, and they probably don’t have the money, right? So there are some of these things where we will just notice that we’re hurting in business, that something didn’t go the way that we hoped that it would go.

You would think that after those experiences, I wouldn’t be sitting here with Jayne Havens having this conversation about how we don’t really need to be in competition with one another. But even with those foibles along the way, all they did was teach me things. Then eventually, I learned to see it as flattery. Wow. Go ahead. Go take my thing. If you keep going with this, eventually someone won’t put it together that this isn’t yours. And if it’s not your language, your talking language is probably not going to be the same as my talking language, right? So I learned to kind of let it go.

Even with those hard points, I’m still able to come back to that center of, “I got to be in my power. I got to have faith in who I am.” The fact that I’m going to connect with people, people are maybe going to steal from us continually. That happens. People are going to say bad things about you too, people in business. Clients are going to sometimes — I’m sure you’ve come across this, Jayne.

Sometimes clients are going to think they really want to work with you, get a plan from you and say, ‘Yes, I’ll totally do this plan.” They get into the plan and be like, “Actually, no, I don’t have energy or effort. I can’t do anything. I’m not going to do anything.” Then they might actually somehow tell other people that your plan didn’t work even though they didn’t do it. They even didn’t utilize your support. They can tell anyone anything. I think it’s just so important that we have a sense of steadiness about who we are and that we are going to keep going no matter what sort of happens to us outside of us. And to know that that’s just business, these are all the things that happen in business — for every kind of business.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, it’s a really mature way of talking about it. Because when it happens to me, I get super fired up. I don’t handle it as I think gracefully as the way you just described. But the one thing I know to be true, when I’ve told the other sleep consultants who I know this has happened to, is that when somebody takes from you, it doesn’t actually take from you.

These people who do that, it’s from a scarcity mindset. It’s from a place of insecurity. They really, truly believe that they can only be successful if they take from somebody who already has success. My success has never been compromised by somebody taking from me. It never feels good. It’s crummy, and it’s unfortunate. But when you lead with integrity, and creativity, and authenticity, I think you continue to thrive. And when you do the opposite of that, you struggle. And it is what it is.

Moorea Malatt: Yeah, and if you let these difficult situations turn you curmudgeonly, then you’re not showing up in your business with your full heart and passion and all of that.

Jayne Havens: In the spirit of true abundance mindset and a love for collaboration, I’m going to ask you, my competitor, to share where our listeners can learn more about you. Share what you want, your website, your social media, whatever you’d love to share.

Moorea Malatt: Yeah, so the easiest way to find my stuff is on my main website which is savvyparentingsupport.com. There’s a Sleep Pros tab where you can find workshops and certification course. Also, you can see who was certified, although many people don’t get their bio and photo back to me. You can also take a look at my family courses. I have a 0-15 months course. It’s called The Sleep Savvy Baby. That’s right on the front page, homepage of my website. There’s a toddler course from 16 months-5 years. It’s called I Love You, Good Night!

Sleep Savvy Certification is how professionals work with me, where we have online class and a lot of one-on-one mentorships. That’s sleepsavvycertification.com.

Jayne Havens: Thank you so much for both, first of all, reaching out and asking if we could do this and having such a thought-provoking and respectful, kind, wonderful conversation amongst colleagues, competitors, and friends. Thank you so much. We definitely will have to do it again. This conversation sparked so many ideas in my mind, so now I want to have you back to talk about all different things. Hopefully, this is the first of many conversations to come. Thank you again.

Moorea Malatt: Jayne, you show up so beautifully whenever I talk with you or see any comments of you on our groups and on our professional groups. It’s just I was like, you have this wonderful platform. We could teach some people some things.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, and I think we did. I think we really did today.

Moorea Malatt: Yeah, we did.

Jayne Havens: Thank you, and we’ll do it again soon.

Moorea Malatt: Thank you so much for having me, Jayne.

Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, it would mean so much to me if you would rate, review, and subscribe. When you rate, review, and subscribe, this helps the podcast reach a greater audience. I am so grateful for your support.

If you would like to learn more about how you can become a certified sleep consultant, head over to my Facebook Group, Becoming a Sleep Consultant or to my website thecpsm.com. Thanks so much, and I hope you will tune in for the next episode. Collaboration over Competition

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