Amy is a wife, mama to four children and former special education teacher. She graduated from CPSM in June of 2023 and recently opened her business, Rhythms of Rest. After each of her pregnancies, Amy struggled with postpartum depression and anxiety and realized how much sleep affected her mental health.CPSM Rising Star
Amy’s family moved to Amsterdam in 2017 and raised their boys there for 3.5 years. She experienced her 4th pregnancy abroad and saw a totally different way of life for pregnant and postpartum mothers…one that normalized support and prioritized rest for the entire family. Amy’s own experience with postpartum depression and anxiety as well as her time abroad ignited her passion to help moms create rhythms and routines so that their families can thrive. CPSM Rising Star
CPSM Rising Star
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On this podcast, I’ll be discussing the business side of sleep consulting. You’ll have an insider’s view on launching, growing, and even scaling a sleep consulting business. This is not a podcast about sleep training. This is a podcast about business building and entrepreneurship.
Amy is a wife, mama to four children and former special education teacher. She graduated from CPSM in June of 2023 and recently opened her business, Rhythms of Rest. After each of her pregnancies, Amy struggled with postpartum depression and anxiety and realized how much sleep affected her mental health.
Amy’s family moved to Amsterdam in 2017 and raised their boys there for 3.5 years. She experienced her fourth pregnancy abroad and saw a totally different way of life for pregnant and postpartum mothers — one that normalized support and prioritized rest for the entire family. Amy’s own experience with postpartum depression and anxiety, as well as her time abroad, ignited her passion to help moms create rhythms and routines so their families can thrive.
Jayne Havens: Amy, welcome to the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. I’m so thrilled to have you here.
Amy Landis: Thanks, Jayne. I’m so excited to be here.
Jayne Havens: Before we get started, tell us about you. What is your professional background, and why did you decide to get certified to work as a sleep consultant?
Amy Landis: Yes, so I was an elementary special education teacher briefly before I had kids. So I had a really short career. Being a mom of four really was kind of the driving factor for wanting to become a sleep consultant, for sure.
Jayne Havens: And did your kids sleep through the night at an early age? Did you have to work hard at it? What did that look like for you and your family?
Amy Landis: Yes, I thought they were going to sleep because I had read all the books. I had read the blogs. I had done the things. I had my first baby when I was 23, and so I had no friends who had kids at that point. I kind of felt lost in the dark. And so I had read the books and thought my babies would sleep because of that. It looked a lot different at two and three in the morning. They did not sleep great.
My first, he was tiny. He was 4 pounds, 15 ounces. Motherhood just looked a little bit different than what I anticipated. I thought things would just go by the books, and they definitely don’t. I mean, you’re raising people that are not robots. And so he did not sleep great. I honestly struggled a lot with postpartum depression with each of my kids. I didn’t quite know it at the time, but that’s what it was. My first did not sleep well at all. He was tiny. We struggled with nursing. It just felt like this domino effect. And with each kid that I had, my postpartum depression and anxiety right after I had them seemed worse the more children I had. We had our first three boys in three and a half years. They were boom, boom, boom. All of that. So they did not sleep great.
Our fourth baby, we had a much bigger gap between our sets of kids. The boys, three and three and a half years, and then our daughter came along five years after that. By that time, I knew a little bit more. I was determined to get her to sleep, because I knew I just had a predisposition to anxiety and postpartum depression. And so I was determined to set the stage right when she was born and do it right from the get go. So we did a little bit more sleep shaping at the time, and she ended up being a much better sleeper.
Jayne Havens: What was it about becoming a sleep consultant that really appealed to you? Was it just something that you felt like you could do at home while raising your kids? Was there a certain reason that you felt called to do this work?
Amy Landis: Yeah, definitely. I think, looking back, I would have loved to have a sleep consultant. My mom passed away when I was young. And so when I was a new mom, I didn’t have any help. I felt super alone. I knew that there are people who could come into your house to do sleep training and help with that. But at that point in our lives, we could never have afforded that. It just felt like this out-of-reach thing. Knowing how much sleep affects mental health, that was a huge driving factor.
Then also, after we had our fourth baby, I was pregnant with her while we lived in Amsterdam. We moved there for my husband’s job, and we lived there for three and a half years. During that time, I saw a totally different way of life for pregnant moms and postpartum moms. I was blown away by the support that was offered. They have something called a ‘kraamzorg‘ who comes right after you have a baby. It’s like a postpartum doula. But that is just the standard care after you have a baby. And so it got my wheels turning of, okay, there’s support that’s available for an everyday mom.
Once we moved back to the States, we had Lucy. She turned two, and I realized, hey, I’m kind of ready. I’m ready to get back into work. Maybe I’m thinking I’m in this new phase of motherhood. My three boys are at school. She’s growing and getting bigger. She’s our last baby. And so I really wanted to do something in the postpartum sphere. But I didn’t have a medical background. I thought about going to counseling to do some postpartum depression and anxiety support for moms. But that felt like this massive undertaking.
Honestly, I stumbled across your course, and I immediately was intrigued. I probably listened to your whole entire podcast in a week and a half. Anytime I had a free moment, I was listening to the podcast. I talked to my husband and a couple of friends. I was like, this has been what I’ve been waiting for. This is exactly what I want to do. Because it just felt like something that really fit with my story, my background, something that I would have desperately wanted to have and something that felt feasible to do while I had little kids at home.
Our boys go to a hybrid school, so it’s very heavy parental involvement. The parents teach on Fridays for some of the grades. It’s half-day school. And so that’s just a huge part of our life right now. I didn’t want to give that up, but I also was just really itching to work a bit and to help moms and feeling like I was coming into this new season. This is something that I could do while I’m still serving my family. Being there with my family but also really able to invest in new moms.
Jayne Havens: Yeah, I love it. So I was looking back. You enrolled in Center for Pediatric Sleep Management in May of this year. Then you completed the course in, I think it was just about a month. I’m wondering, how did you juggle your learning with all of your other life responsibilities, taking care of your four kids?
Amy Landis: I think I was really, really determined and excited about it. It had been a long time since I had done anything I felt that used my brain. It honestly lit me up learning. So I would drop the boys at school. I have childcare a couple days a week for our two-year-old. I would go to a coffee shop. I kind of hide out in the back. I felt like I was devouring it. It was all these things that I wish I would have known when I had my little kids.
It was so practical. It made sense. I was like, this is what moms need to know. And so I felt like I definitely made it a priority. I feel like I’ve probably said no to a lot of things that month, just because I was determined to do it. I also thought it would take me a lot longer. But I think my excitement for it really helped it speed up. My husband was great. I mean, I would lay in bed at night. I would do stuff. I’d wake up early and do stuff. And so I think just finding enjoyment was a huge factor.
Jayne Havens: Yeah, I always say that to people. People ask me all the time, like, how long is it going to take me to get through the course? Am I going to be able to handle this with whether it’s my full-time job, or I have three little kids at home or whatever anybody’s life circumstances are? I always say that if this is something that you want, if it’s something that you’re excited about, you’re going to make the time to do it.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten an email late at night or a Facebook message from a brand-new student who sends me a note just to say that they cannot put the laptop down. They’re just getting started, and they’re loving it. They’re enjoying learning. It feels good to consume all of this really interesting information. I really do, I love that you said that because I hear it all the time. If you’re excited about it and you’re interested in the work, then you’re going to take the time and do it. I think people make time for the things that are exciting for them.
Amy Landis: Definitely.
Jayne Havens: So you’re off to a pretty strong start. I know you’ve just launched your business pretty recently, I think, this summer. I saw somewhere that you posted in one of our Facebook groups that you already received a complete return on investment from the price that you paid to enroll in CPSM, which is so exciting. I’m so proud of you. Would you be willing to share a little bit about how you landed maybe those first couple of paying clients? What did that look like for you?
Amy Landis: Yeah, this was my biggest worry. I mean, I am not someone who — I don’t know anything about sales. I don’t know anything about marketing. And that honestly made me the most nervous. After doing your course, I definitely felt confident in the sleep side of things. I felt I had this good knowledge. My four babies do sleep now, and so I felt like I had some practical experience. But in terms of putting myself out there, I was really, really nervous about that.
It was definitely a leap of faith that I definitely jumped on a bunch of Facebook groups. I was just responding to people’s questions a lot. I feel like I did that a ton. I’m just really trying to provide value and even not expecting return on that initially. I just thought if I can put my name out there as someone who knows what I’m talking about, kind of an expert in the field, then that turned into some DMs. A lot of those were just people saying, okay, thanks for the help, all of that. Then some people signed on. My first three clients were from Facebook groups. And yeah, it worked great.
Then I think the biggest jump that I had, I had reached out to a photographer who was an OB nurse photographer. She had young kids. I messaged her one day. I was like, “Hey, I see this is what you do. I see this is your family. I’m a sleep consultant. If you need help with your own kids, I would love to do that for free for you if you’d share about it on your Instagram or if you want to do a giveaway or anything like that.”
She messaged back right away. She was like, “Oh, my gosh. Yes, we have a six-month-old who doesn’t sleep.” And so I worked with her, and she documented the process day by day. That was huge. Because she was realistic. The first couple nights, it was hard. Her baby was co-sleeping, and they were transitioning to a crib. But by the end, seven-to-seven sleep. And so I think her documenting that as a real mom really helped. I got some clients from that. We did a giveaway.
I was actually chatting with a friend the other day about something else that I felt was helping to get some clients recently. It has been in these Facebook groups, instead of just saying, “Hey, I’m a sleep consultant,” like really talking about some past clients that I’ve had. I’d recently worked with two 15-month-old twins. It worked great. We did chair method. It was awesome.
And so a couple people have commented saying, I have a 15 month old that are partially co-sleeping. I’ll chime in and say, “Yes, I just worked with a family in a very similar situation. This was the transformation.” I think that speaks volumes to someone in a similar situation. I think these moms feel hopeless. Like, I’m the only one who is in the situation. My baby, it cannot get better. Then speaking into, oh, yeah, I just finished up with someone in that same boat. And this is what it led to. So that’s kind of been my avenue.
I’m not amazing at social media. I think just trying to find time is hard. But I’ll dedicate a little bit of time a day to hopping on Facebook groups and really trying to work at my Instagram. But that’s taken a backseat to just talking to people through DMs.
Jayne Havens: Yeah, I love that you say, like, I’m not really that good at social media. But here, I’m using social media to successfully grow my business. Because I really actually very closely identify with that. I don’t love Instagram. Actually, I’ve shared I think on this podcast before I have not posted to my Instagram grid since September 22, 2022. Literally, in a few days, it will be an entire year since I posted to Instagram. At this point, it’s just a sticking point. I think I’m going to post something on September 22 this year just to say I had it a year.
But I love to tell other sleep consultants and prospective CPSM students that you don’t need to be on Instagram to grow a successful business. You don’t even really need to be on social media to grow a successful business. But you do need to be able to make meaningful connections with people. The Internet is a beautiful place to do that.
I think you do a lot of what I was doing when I was first starting my business, which is just making really nice, supportive connections inside of virtual communities, which might be a Facebook group. But that can be done in person just the same, right? It doesn’t need to be done on the Internet. I always say that the best way to use social media to grow your business is to use it the way that it was intended to be used.
Let’s talk about Facebook. Facebook was created to network socially. It’s a social network. So if you use Facebook the way that it was intended to be used, which is to network online, then you can have a very successful business using Facebook as a tool to grow.
Amy Landis: Definitely.
Jayne Havens: I never recommend. I have a Facebook page for both Snooze Fest and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. I think it’s been years since I posted anything to my Facebook page. I’m not doing that. I’m using it as a social network. I’m just networking in online communities. I think that that’s exactly what you’re doing, which makes me so happy to hear that you’re having success with that. I think it’s actually easy when you let your guard down and do it from a place of like, “I’m just here to connect. I’m here to help you. I’m here to answer your questions.” I think people can feel that and sense that. Then they’re drawn to you, rather than you being pushy about what you have to offer.
Amy Landis: Definitely. I think so much of the conversations I’ve had with people have been — they’ve gone well. Because I think a lot of moms just want someone to hear them out, to validate them, to be encouraging, to give them light at the end of the tunnel without coming in hot. This is what I offer. This is my price. This is this. I think genuinely just caring about them, their story, listening, I think that goes a long way.
Even the clients that I’ve had so far, I feel like that’s been something too. They’ll text other questions. Like, when is the bottom tooth supposed to come? And different things. So I feel like it’s just been fun. It feels like a lot of parenting encouragement. And so that’s been a cool twist that I wasn’t expecting, but I’ve really enjoyed that. Because when you’re a new mom especially, everything’s new. It’s different. There’s constantly new things coming. And so I think just having someone who’s nice to you, who’s encouraging, who is in your corner makes a huge difference.
Jayne Havens: One of the things that I love most about this work is that it’s so incredibly rewarding. I think your timing was perfect in talking about that little tooth popping up. Because I really identify with that. That’s exactly, those are the conversations that we have with our clients that I think build a deeper connection that allow them to really trust us at an even higher level which, ultimately, I think leads to referrals down the road.
I’m wondering if you have any specific clients that come to mind that really had a special transformation or something that just felt so — I don’t know. Do you have a client that you can think of that just lit you up when you think about them? You’re just so excited about the transformation that they had. Would you share a story?
Amy Landis: Definitely. I finished up with a little girl. She was 14 months. By the end of it, she turned 15 months. Her mom was eight months pregnant with their second, and this little girl had never slept through the night. The mom was either crawling into the crib at eight months pregnant to sleep with her daughter, or they were bringing her into the bed middle of the night.
And so when we spoke, she was so discouraged and zero hope. She was like, “This is just how she is. She will never sleep.” So I wrote up the plan. We had a phone call. Usually, the consultation calls, they haven’t been that long because the plan is detailed. We went through it over and over again. It was over an hour. She wanted to be sure she had everything down. We talked about the chair method. She’s like, “What if this happens? What if this happens?” It was over and over and over again. She was so, so nervous. The first night was hard. She texted me the second night. She’s like, “I cannot believe it. She slept the entire night.”
What we figured out was, this little girl had such an attachment to her mom’s hair. We ended up giving her like a little transitional item herself. I think she just needed space. She needed the confidence to know she could do it. She’s been sleeping beautifully since. So that was the shortest success I’d ever seen, but I think it just shocked the mom.
Getting her text messages have been amazing. When we wrapped up, she texted me. She’s like, “This has been huge for my marriage and for my mental health.” That brought me so much joy. Because I’m thinking. My babies, it was hard in the beginning. But it was a couple of months. This 15 months of not sleeping, her husband wasn’t sleeping in bed with her, and just seeing this is making a difference in someone’s life, not just in this blip of parenthood but in terms of their whole family structure. She was like, I feel so encouraged to do something with our new baby earlier on, so we’re not in this position. I loved working with her. I think just seeing her shocked over it was so fun.
Jayne Havens: I love that. I actually had a family. Very similar. A 14-month-old little girl who had never slept a night in her life and was nursing all night and bed sharing the second half of the night. Actually, I think it was the first night she slept through the night. She never woke up after we implemented that first new bedtime routine. She fell asleep independently that very first night. That was it. Then we spent 14 days, 13 days just felling and celebrating. It was really, really fun. Those are the good ones.
There are others that are hard, but they’re always so rewarding. Every single time, it never gets old. Just before this podcast, I was on Zoom with somebody who’s interested in enrolling in CPSM. I was explaining to her that, literally, I’ve been doing this for 11 years. And it never gets old.
I just got a text message from a client who has a four-year-old who hasn’t slept through the night in months. Last night, he slept until 5:15 in the morning, which for him is huge, huge, huge. We’re not 100% there, but he basically slept through the night. She sent me a picture of him all dressed so cute and having a big smile on his face. It was so clear that he was so proud of himself. Mom and dad were so proud of him. I was so proud of all of them. It just never gets old.
Amy Landis: It’s the best.
Jayne Havens: I could live off these text messages for a lifetime. It fuels me.
Amy Landis: Oh, yeah, I’ve been telling my husband. I’ll read them to him. I’ll read them to my kids. I’m like, look, they’re doing it. These babies are sleeping.
Jayne Havens: Yeah, it’s the absolute best. I know this is just the beginning for you. But do you have any thoughts on what you want your business to look like down the road? I know you’re just getting started, but you’re off to a strong start. I’m wondering, where are you going to be in the next six months to a year?
Amy Landis: Wow. Thanks. That’s a good question. I definitely want to grow. I feel like right now, I’m spending a lot of time trying to make those connections. I would love a steady stream of people coming in. I think that would just be a dream come true. Maybe some more systems in place. I’m still like, okay, do I start with an email list? Or how do I do some of those things right now?
I’m speaking at my first mom’s event in November. I’m super excited about that. So I’m really hoping to make some more local connections. I’ve had clients — one in Australia, one in England, and then some just all over the US. And so currently, I really want to hone in on this area. I’m excited about that. But I do think just growing, getting more clients but also really trying to find the sweet balance of growing a business, being with my family. And so, yeah, every day I feel like more excited about it and encouraged to see where it goes. So we’ll see.
Jayne Havens: I am incredibly proud of you.
Amy Landis: Thank you.
Jayne Havens: I think I’ve told you you’re my shining star. When you first got onto that Zoom with me, I’ll never forget. When my students graduate, I do a Zoom strategy session with them. It’s an opportunity to just get lasting questions answered, whether it’s sleep stuff, business stuff, both.
You came to me all insecure and nervous about your pricing, and I just sort of gave it to you. I’m like, you’re going to raise your prices. Your website looks great. Everything you have looks great. You know what you’re doing. You’re a great sleep consultant. Let’s do this. I don’t know. You did it. You’re off to the races, and you’re doing so well. And I just can’t wait to see all that you achieve. I think, in time, you will find that balance between work and family time.
When you’re first starting your business, I remember I was in that season myself not too long ago. I started this business as a stay-at-home mom too, so I totally get it. You want to build that momentum so that you can actually sort of then take a step back a little bit and let the business continue to roll on autopilot. I really, truly believe that you’re not that far away from that point.
Amy Landis: Thank you.
Jayne Havens: My guess is that, in six months or less, you’re going to really start, you’re going to have one of those moments where somebody signs up to work with you on your website, and you have never even spoken to them. The first time that happens, it’s so crazy. Because you’re like, “Who is this person, and why are they paying me when they’ve never even spoken to me?” I can’t wait for you to send me an email or a Facebook message the first time that ever happens.
Amy Landis: I will.
Jayne Havens: I think within the next six months for you, you’re probably going to start to realize that more and more of your clients are coming to you by way of other moms sharing your name with their friends. I think that’s going to happen for you really soon. So I wish you all the success in the world, and thank you for having this conversation with me today. Before we wrap up, if people want to follow you on Instagram or check out your website, anything you want to share?
Jayne Havens: Thank you, Amy. I can’t wait to see all that you do.
Amy Landis: Thanks, Jayne.
Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, it would mean so much to me if you would rate, review, and subscribe. When you rate, review, and subscribe, this helps the podcast reach a greater audience. I am so grateful for your support.
If you would like to learn more about how you can become a certified sleep consultant, head over to my Facebook Group, Becoming a Sleep Consultant or to my website thecpsm.com. Thanks so much, and I hope you will tune in for the next episode. CPSM Rising Star