Energy Healing Our Way to Success with Nichole Joy

 

Nichole Joy is a corporate real estate finance dropout, turned birth doula, CBE, birth business coach, energy healing practitioner, podcaster, digital course creator, author of ‘Just Start’ and… proud mother to three little ones (one C-section, one hospital based VBAC and one accidental home birth – on the bedroom floor). Nichole’s juice is making business easy & efficient, while guiding you into the depths of entrepreneurship. 

 

 

Links: 

Website: Nichole Joy

Instagram: @nichole_joy__

Podcast: The Nichole Joy Show

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Transcript:

Intro: Welcome to Becoming a Sleep Consultant! I’m your host Jayne Havens, a certified sleep consultant and founder of both Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management.

On this podcast, I’ll be discussing the business side of sleep consulting. You’ll have an insider’s view on launching, growing, and even scaling a sleep consulting business. This is not a podcast about sleep training. This is a podcast about business building and entrepreneurship.

Nichole Joy is a corporate real estate finance dropout, turned birth doula, child birth educator, birth business coach, energy healing practitioner, podcaster, digital course creator, author of Just Start, and proud mother to three little ones (one C-section, one hospital-based VBAC and one accidental home birth – on the bedroom floor). Nichole’s juice is making business easy and efficient, while guiding you through the depths of entrepreneurship.

Jayne Havens: Nichole Joy, welcome to the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. I’m actually really, really, really excited to have you here today.

Nichole Joy: Thank you. Me too. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Jayne Havens: Of course. I want to start by sharing that Nichole Joy and I recently met in person. A couple of weeks ago, I spent a long weekend in Clearwater, Florida with 40 or so birth and postpartum professionals for a retreat, and it was 10 out of 10 fabulous.

Nichole Joy was one of the four organizers of the program. And really, you were the only one that I had not yet connected with in my business. And what I loved most about meeting you was that you had this totally unique vibe that also felt like really familiar. I think, in a lot of ways, we’re really, really different. But I connected with you in a lot of ways in your messaging, and that was really fun to see. I felt like your genius was just coming out full force. And I wanted to have you here to share all of that with everybody who listens to this show.

So before we get started, maybe you can give us a brief introduction. Tell us a little bit about you, your zone of genius. Bring us into your world.

Nichole Joy: Thank you. That’s a heck of an introduction, and I appreciate that. I also agree that the four of us brought such different flavors, and I think that’s what makes it really special.

A little bit about my world. I’m a podcaster. I am a serial digital course creator. I am an author. I’ve created an audio book. I’m a mother. I’ve had a C section, and I’ve had a VBAC in a hospital with drugs. Then I had a home birth. My third was accidentally on my bedroom floor. Well, kind of accidentally but not really, which, it’s complicated. In the world of business, I’m also an energy healing practitioner. I started that four years ago. And I do remember you, actually. I knew your face, and it had been a while.

Let me back up. I entered the birth world in 2018 when I was pregnant with my third, because I was ready for a natural birth and I wanted to know everything that I needed to know. It’s very in my human design. I need to know everything. I need the information.

And so I went all in and studied to be a childbirth educator, a doula. I got into the birth world. I was super passionate about it. In that accidental home birth, I ended up doula-ing myself and guiding my husband on how to doula me during the birth. Then my doula showed up near the end when the baby’s head was out, which was, you know. She got there as quickly as she could, but it was a pretty fast birth.

So I was in the birth world for a while, and I pretty quickly realized that my juice wasn’t going to be in the labor room. There are other people, many of you listening, who are far better at that part than I am given a lot of different variables. And I also really enjoy business. I enjoy online business. I enjoy virtual work, connecting people all over the world. So I started to teach other birth professionals how to build an online business.

Meanwhile, I was studying energy healing for my personal life. Nothing to do with my business. That was the original plan. I was like, “I’m not a healer. I will never be a healer. That’s not me.” But I need this tool for my motherhood experience to use with my children. Because it’s an interesting ride when they start to get a little out of diapers. They’re wiping themselves. Their personalities really come into place. And you’re like, wait, what? So I started energy healing work with them.

Then over the last four years, it’s made its way into — as I was telling everybody at the retreat, it’s now in my life comparable to what breast milk is. When you have a newborn, you sprinkle breast milk on everything. And in my life, I’ve put energy healing on everything. It’s hard to explain, but I will do my best. So that’s kind of what brought me to where I am now. My life is a combination of teaching virtually of energy healing, of online business, of motherhood conversations and healing your lineage, all of those things. So that’s the high-level summary.

Jayne Havens: Can you give us a really basic understanding of what energy healing looks like in entrepreneurship? Is that even a fair question?

Nichole Joy: It is. Yeah, it is. And I do it all the time. I do it for myself all the time. Let’s see how I can most simply explain this. We talked a little bit about this at the retreat, but I’m going to bring some of that conversation back in. Because sometimes I also think it’s helpful to hear it more than once. It lands differently every time you hear it, I think. Or, for me, it does.

Energy healing for our person, for our individual — it’s my belief. And listen. Anybody who’s listening who is not of the same belief as me, caveat. That’s totally okay. You can take what you like and dump the rest on the trash. No hard feelings. I love you. That’s fine. It’s my belief that we have spiritual soup, and it’s in our DNA. It’s made up of a lot of information that we come into this life with. We come in with lineage information from our ancestral lines. We come in with information from parallel or past lives. Then we have a lot of information — this is what most of us know about — from the time we’re born until where we are today, all of the experiences we’re having.

Many of you listening work on stuff like this with your clients where you’re detangling the information, deprogramming, deconditioning what they’ve learned about birth, what they’ve learned about having a baby. But it applies to everything. So there’s all this information in your spiritual soup. That modality, the specific modality that I use with energy healing — there’s other modalities, of course. But the one that I use heals information in your soup to the origin, all the way to the root, the origin of the experience, whatever that was or whenever that was. Then it heals all the way forward, back all the ways.

Now when it comes to your business — and this is an ongoing thing, right? I’m not like a fairy godmother that I wave a magic wand, and you’re done, right? It’s not that. For me, it’s an ongoing thing that I continue to heal and shift whatever is ready at the moment to move. When it comes to my business, all of our businesses are going to be built a little bit differently, right?

My personal business is very close to me. This is a really strange reference and example, but it was given to me by one of my guides actually yesterday. That my business is very much like that biblical story of the rib, coming from the person, being born from the rib. That mine is that close to me. It’s very me. But not everybody’s business is like that. Some businesses — let me think of an example. I’m going to think of a big one that has nothing to do with the birth industry per se but like Nike.

Nike is not a very personal business, right? Whoever founded Nike, I don’t even know if they’re alive anymore. But they built up this complete separate entity. And it’s a very different kind of structure. So when we talk about energy healing for your entrepreneur, most of your listeners, I would imagine, are closer to like me version where it’s very close to them. It’s very intimate.

Even when you start to get into an agency model, a lot of birth professionals that I’ve met and worked with, even when they have an agency model and there’s people working for them, they’re still very close to the business. No matter how much automation you have in place, you still are — it’s your baby, and you feel really close to it. And so it has a lot of your signature in the business container. So I believe that my business, our businesses, particularly for heart-centered entrepreneurs, has a consciousness. It’s not the same as my consciousness or your consciousness, but it has its own consciousness. There’s information in the business, an information that sometimes is ready to be healed.

I’m going to give you a more tactile example that I think will be helpful. Coming into the New Year in 2024, I created a resource to help whoever listens to my show or is in my community do some energy healing on their 2023, to clean out their business year before moving into a new calendar year. So what I’m talking about in that example is: your business can pick up what I thought of as energetic footprints from people who come in your doors.

Even if it’s virtual, you have clients. You have service providers. You have VAs. You have all these different people that are connected to your business. And sometimes their energies are not really in alignment with what you want your business to be. And I find it very important. Especially after having some tricky experiences with people who left some really strange energetic footprints in my business, I find it really important to do that kind of housekeeping. Energy healing is one of the tools, for example, that you can use to do that. That’s like one very kind of small example.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I know. I think that that’s really helpful. Because as you were explaining it, I was thinking about all of the negative footprints in my business from the past that maybe I’m still clinging on to a little bit. I’m still harboring feelings about it. It’s still impacting the way I’m moving forward instead of—

Sometimes, I talk about loving and releasing. When you work with a client that’s not a good fit, you do your best to support them as best you can. And when the contract is over, sometimes I like to just love and release. And sometimes you say that you’re loving and releasing. But really, you’re holding on to it. I guess that’s where the energy healing comes in, right? I probably need a lesson in that. Because I can talk about loving and releasing, but sometimes I still hold on to it.

Nichole Joy: Yeah, I have it on my podcast. There’s an episode that’s got only that meditation. You can use it anytime you want. It’s there. That particular one goes through 2023, or the year prior. I made sure not to date it so that anybody can use it at any year going forward. But it is a really helpful tool. And you’re right. Clients that aren’t that lovely and that you’re ready to be complete when you reach the end of the contract, you’re like, okay. I’m ready for this to be completed. This was great. I’ve had my learning experience, and now I feel done.

And service providers, too. I’ve had coaches that come into my business sometimes with good intention, and they tend to leave some of their stuff behind. It’s not in alignment with my stuff. It’s not a match. It doesn’t even necessarily mean that they had ill intent toward me or my business, but they have their own crap in their own spiritual soup that if they’re not cautious, they’re like dropping their stuff at work.

When we talk about birth professionals, it’s that concept of when you walk into a birth — I’ve had a lot of clients who are doulas. They have beautiful spiritual practices before they enter a birthing space to clear their stuff, so they’re not bringing their stuff in, right? They’ve even used some of my meditations to clear whatever they picked up from a prior birth, for example, so that it’s not in their field before they enter this person’s space. And it’s that concept.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, it all sounds amazing. I feel like I would need to put a lot of practice into this. It’s like a life’s work. It’s not just something that you work on for an hour and move on.

Nichole Joy: Yeah, well, because it’s in every part of — that’s what our whole experience is on earth. It’s energy. Everything is energy. It’s really, energy healing is about shifting energy, and healing things and releasing. Like you said, love and release. It’s releasing things that are ready.

The thing is, sometimes we want things to be ready. Our human, our brain is like, okay, I’m ready for this. I’m done with that. I want to do this. Our human is so attached to a thing. It can be frustrating when what actually happens is not always in alignment with what we want or when we want it. Because sometimes certain things just aren’t ready to shift. And it’s a matter of timing, I think, and for certain energies to open for things to shift.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, awesome. I thought it might be fun to go through some of the topics that we talk about often here on the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. But I’d love to have you put your really interesting spin on these topics that are sort of regularly talked about here.

The first one that comes to my mind is fear of failure. I’m sure your clients have these feelings. My students inside of Center for Pediatric Sleep Management have these feelings. I think people who are even interested in becoming a sleep consultant, or becoming a doula, or whatever, whatever is like next on their path, sometimes they get stuck because they’re afraid to fail, maybe even to the point where they don’t even try, right? I’m wondering how you unpack that with your clients, or what is your perspective on this mindset? How do we shift it?

Nichole Joy: That is a really good one. My particular human design — I’m also a human design geek. I’m not like an expert per se, but I’ve studied it for several years now for myself, in my own use of my clients and my children. So I am what you call 1/3. My profile lines are 1/3. My three line is all about trial and error. It’s what they call it. Trial and error. Trial and error. I call it trial and lesson. It relates to what you’re talking about, this fear of failure. And also, let me say like, I, too, have this fear of failure that comes up from time to time. It’s just that I’ve learned how to move through it in a different way now, and I don’t allow it to stop me from doing a thing anymore.

So it’s kind of like the way I think about prepping for birth, a natural birth. I felt like I was never going to go in fearless. I felt like I’m going to be afraid, and that’s okay. I’m going to just do it anyway, and I’m going to walk with the fear. It’s not going to stop me. I approach business things like that, too. I still feel fear. And I remind myself that my particular me, my design of who I am as a person, I have to try things, lots of things, to learn what works well for me and what doesn’t.

I kind of was actually thinking this morning, getting out of the shower, that if I could give people one piece of business advice, it would be to: when you get started, look at everything as an experiment. Instead of like, oh, my god, this has to work, what if I’m just looking at it like I am going to try this and see what parts I like and what parts I don’t?

Because that’s what it is. How can you fail if you’re approaching it as an experiment? You’re going to find what doesn’t work, and you’re going to find what you like. And of course, correct it as you go. That’s so 1/3 of me, by the way, for anyone listening who’s a human design geek. But I do think it’s helpful for anybody to know that. That you’re going to do it, and you’re going to do it afraid. That’s okay, and you’re going to learn something.

Jayne Havens: Do you think that there are certain human designs, like certain human makeups, that are just not candidates for entrepreneurship? Whether it’s because that fear of failure gets so stuck, like it’s so front and center that they just can’t move, or is this mindset that can be taught and worked on so that people who maybe have that block can move through it?

Nichole Joy: Oh, you know what I actually think, I think it’s — I feel like the question is kind of, are there people who just aren’t cut out for entrepreneurship because maybe the fear is too much? I think it’s more of, perhaps their most expressed version of their life doesn’t include being an entrepreneur. Because I think about entrepreneurship, for me, the reason it has to be a thing for me is because it’s part of my fullest soul’s expression, my soul’s fullest expression.

And for me to be fully expressed, I have to have this creative outlet. But I don’t think everybody — we all have different expressions. And I think there’s going to be people who entrepreneurship just isn’t part of it. Maybe it’s their experience with their partner. Maybe it’s their experience taking care of animals and adopting and fostering tons and tons of animals. Maybe it’s their caregivers for other people’s children. Maybe their motherhood experience.

There have been times, a lot of times, when I’m like I actually don’t think, as much as I love entrepreneurship, it’s not the thing for me. The thing I don’t talk about publicly that’s actually the thing for me is the way I’m doing motherhood. And I don’t yet talk about it that much because I have fear of how it’s going to be received. And because of that, people in my private spaces know that. Eventually, it’s slowly making its way into the way I do business or the way I talk about and teach.

But I just think for some people’s fullest expression, it may be okay for them to run someone else’s company or to work for somebody else’s company in a loving way. Because if we don’t have people who do all those things, who’s going to do all of it? If everybody in the room wanted to be an entrepreneur, who’s going to take your blood if you go to the hospital for something? Or who’s going to be the physical therapist at the assisted living facility helping you when you’re 71 with Parkinson’s? Who’s going to do that? So I hope that’s an okay way to answer that.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, absolutely. Do you put imposter syndrome in the same category where it’s just sort of like a mental block that you have to be willing to work through, or is that something different?

Nichole Joy: I feel like it does have a different — to me, it feels different. Imposter syndrome versus the fear of failure, they do feel different to me. I, too, have had personal experience with imposter syndrome, of feeling like who am I to do this? Who am I to do that? There’s a bit of a mental block. I do think, for me, where a lot of that comes from is conditioning and what you may have picked up or learned as a child, what you may have been told as a child. You’re too much, or who do you think you are? That kind of thing.

So you hear that as an adult, like, who do you think you are? You’re too much. I’ve seen that with a ton of my clients. It’s something similar, right? Not exact same stuff per se but a similar vibe that we pick up stuff throughout our life. Again, my belief is also, there could be information there from past lives — we say past, but I also feel like they’re parallel — and lineage, where we just have that imposter syndrome.

I do think something that I’ve been really setting with lately is — what’s helped me so much with my imposter syndrome is having a mentor who sees me and holds the vision of my highest possibility and my highest potentiality. Because there’s times when you forget how to do that for yourself, and that’s when imposter syndrome sounds come in of, like, who do you think you are? Who do you think you are?

Then you have that person. Sometimes it’s your best friend. Sometimes it’s your partner. For some of us, it’s our mentor. Wherever you’re going to find this person, find that person and have them readily accessible to you to talk to you. Because that constant — at least, I’m a projector in human design. That recognition, it’s like it reminds me of who the eff I am. And we need that sometimes because we forget. But when people can help you and hold the highest possibility in their mind and hold that vision for you, it’s really helpful.

Jayne Havens: I’m so glad to hear you say that because I try to be that for my students and grads. I’m constantly telling them. And I know that they’re good at their jobs. Because they go through my course, they pass my assignments. I see them inside of our Facebook group answering questions in a way that’s really thoughtful and empathetic and supportive. I see their potential, and I’m constantly reminding them like, yes, you are capable of this. Put yourself out there. Get to work. Go do the thing. And so when you said that, I was like, oh, good. Okay. I’m doing that for people, and that’s great.

The other thing that you said, that it’s conditioning, I agree. As we’re sitting here, we’re right up on the two-year anniversary of this podcast. And I was reflecting on that yesterday. That if I were to go back and listen to my first couple of podcast episodes from two years ago, I think they’re like kind of cringey. They’re like really cringey. I have conditioned myself to be more comfortable on this platform, communicating in this way, showing up every single week. I’ve only twice in two years run a rerun for my podcast. So it’s like actual commitment every single week to get this done. And I’m better at it as a result. And I don’t question myself.

I have imposter syndrome about other stuff. But when it comes to the podcast, I’m like, okay, I’m pretty good at this. I’ve been doing this for two years every single week. Not every single show is a slam dunk, but I’m starting to feel more confident that I can just get on Zoom with somebody else, or just with myself and run a decent show. And I don’t think I felt that way two years ago. So I think you’re right. You have to condition yourself to be better at things.

Nichole Joy: To what you want, to what you desire. Like what you see yourself actually doing. If you can do that, hold the vision and then show up and take the action. Like you’re saying, for you, it’s those weekly episodes. And that confidence comes with movement. So the more you do it, you’re building up the confidence.

I also find myself — you probably do this, too — reminding my clients. It’s not just like you can go out and do this. It’s also, I have to often tell them like, hey, you’re already doing it. You’re already doing it. And for some reason, we don’t always recognize that in ourselves. So it’s helpful to have somebody outside of you to look at you and say, not just are you capable and you can do this, but also how well you’re already doing it. Like whether it’s doing virtual coaching, or virtual birth support, or whatever it is, I will often say that. They kind of laugh, and they’re like, oh, yeah, I guess I am. I’m like, okay. So now just go do it more. Do it again.

Jayne Havens: The last topic I wanted to talk with you about is scarcity mindset. I’m really excited to talk about this one with you because I feel like this is your jam right here, right? Because you really have mastered in your own mind the abundance mindset, right? Like, scarcity is not really a thing in your brain. So can you help us get there?

Nichole Joy: It still is one of those things that does come up. I mean, I don’t talk about this either. But probably, for some reason, I felt really comfortable sharing today. So I’m going to just say it. I’ve been pretty poor. I mean, we were poor. There was even somebody that our family knew who was, like, you guys were nothing but white trash. Right? We were poor, and there was a lot of scarcity mindset around us. I mean, we were doing the best we could with what we had. And it’s not like a boohoo what was me. It’s just very realistically, there was a lot of scarcity when it came to money conversations. And so I had a lot of that conditioning.

I’ve been working since probably late 2017 on rewiring myself and what I believe is possible for money mindset, or for myself, in terms of abundance. And so it’s another one of those things that you take your time. You give yourself grace and patience. You go one piece, one layer at a time of unpacking what you believe to be true about money, about finances. You start getting curious. You start asking questions like, well, what if?

I shared, at the retreat, a vibe for me. I don’t like to pick a word of the year because I feel like it’s just too limiting. I cannot choose a word. I just can’t. And so I felt like the vibe coming into this year for me felt very delulu.

That, to me, is the abundance of, like, anything is possible. Like what if this? What if? But why not? But what if? And why not me? Why not us? Why not my children? Why wouldn’t my children be the ones to have their cute little tissues in the first-class seats of a flight to go somewhere? Of course, I want that for my children. Like, why not us? And so I’ve had to, yeah, I’ve had to work on this for a long time. I’ve taken courses as well. Some of the pieces stuck with me pretty nicely. Some pieces, I left behind.

One of my favorite things — this is something that I don’t know if anybody ever taught me this. I just started doing it. So I’m a self-projected projector in human design, which means I’m a very good podcaster, like the talking thing. I need to talk. I need to be talking. It’s very good for me. I didn’t know this at the time, but I was learning money mindset affirmations and abundance affirmations. And I spoke them to myself, instead.

A lot of people will journal. I’m not much of a journaler if I’m being honest. My version of that is, I talk into an app. I say it and I feel it. I say it until I feel it, until I have tears in my eyes. I go on these deep riffs, the vibration, and the feeling, and the frequency of my voice, it’s like my guide. And so I say it to myself in an app. I recorded these affirmations. I have a whole like 18-minute track. I’m telling you, it’s intense. But then, I listened to myself. A lot of it is — I’m trying to think of, okay, Hypnobabies.

Hypnobabies has a 45-minute positive pregnancy affirmation track. I used to listen to it every day. It’s that concept of getting into your subconscious. But this is all, for me, about abundance and about money mindset as part of it. It’s healing the pieces that feel scarce. It’s addressing them when they come up. They still do come up, but I move through them more quickly, and I see them. I’m aware of them. I’m like, hey, wait a minute. I am not, we are not there anymore. We are not 8 years old anymore. We are 40 years old now. We are in today. Thank you. I love you. Goodbye. Next.

Now what do I want to feel instead? I go to those affirmations. I go to that vibe. I think well, what if? What if this? That’s where I bring the delulu in. Because if I’m like, well, I don’t want that old story anymore, if I don’t want to live with that old story of whatever that scarcity story is, what do I want to replace it with? And why does it have to be realistic? If I’m going to be creating my reality anyway, I’m not going to create a realistic reality. I’m going to create a total effing delusional in the best way possible reality. That’s what I’m working on.

For me, abundance is not just money. It’s abundance in love. It’s abundance in the kind of relationship I’m building with my children. It’s abundance in the way I love myself. There’s a lot of layers of it. Money is part of it. But it’s a totally delusional in the best way life, I should say.

Jayne Havens: I love that answer. It’s so different than the way I would talk about it, but I also really connect with it. I don’t think I would be in an app talking to myself for 18 minutes, but I would be walking around my neighborhood with an air pod in my ear, listening to your podcast, absorbing it, or listening to something else and thinking like, wow. I can do that too. We all have different ways of shifting our mindset and our belief system.

I love that you’re sharing the way that you do it. Because I’ve listened to what you said. It’s like, okay. I wouldn’t do it that way. But I heard what you said, and here’s how I’d modify it so that it would work for me. Or, here’s how I’m already doing it, which is a spin on what you just said, even though it’s entirely different.

Nichole Joy: Yeah, and I share the way I’m doing it. But also, when it comes to working and teaching all these different things and all the different ways of businesses and everything I teach about, just like the way I taught birth classes in 2018, 2019, know your options. Know your options in birth was one of my first courses back in the day. But also, know your options in business, in money mindset, and all of these things.

I’ve tried. As a 1/3, I’ve tried all the ways. I’ve journaled. I’ve listened to other people. I’ve tried lots of different ways, and then I find the one that feels good to me. And so when I work with people, I also — anybody listening, I highly recommend trying different things. Because there’s no way to know what you’re going to like until you try them. That’s like, we talked about that with starting your business. But it applies when you are trying to rewire your brain out of scarcity mindset and into creating a totally abundant life for yourself.

Try the different ways. Because some people do vision boards. I’ve done vision boards before. I like vision boards. But I also really like hearing myself. I don’t record the affirmations every day. I don’t always record in 18 minutes. But the most recent one that I made, I actually titled it ‘delulu.’ And it ended up being 18 minutes, and I just listened to it every day.

I’m just going to be honest. I have this like red light therapy deal that I got, Santa got me. And so when I lay down before I go to bed at night, I set myself up. I’ve got the red light thing over my face. I’m 40 years old, and I don’t do Botox. So I was like, I need this light. Then I plug in my headphones. It’s a 20-minute light setup, so I get almost the full, that 18-minute audio runs. It’s timed perfectly. So I found a way to fit. What do they say? I heard somebody say this, and I really liked it. Feed two birds with one scone.

Jayne Havens: I love that.

Nichole Joy: Thank you. That’s like a new way of the old, weird way.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, it’s way nicer. I like that. If people are listening to this and want more of your — you called it juice, but I want to call it sauce. Whatever. If people want more of what you have, where can they find you? How can they learn more from you, and maybe even work with you?

Nichole Joy: Thanks for asking. So Instagram is my favorite. I like hanging out on Instagram. I’m in my stories. About every other day, I’d hop in and do a full newsletter style in my stories. So that’s my favorite place. And my podcast. So my podcast is truly like my little baby. I love it. I call it a podcast, but I said this a while back. I feel like it’s basically a collection of many classes and trainings. So it’s more of this, the spiritual business conversation.

I’m very logical, and I’m actually very strategic. But I bring in a heavy dose of spirituality because I just feel like they marry so well. So those are my two favorite places. Then you can reach out to me, of course, anywhere. I’m all over the interwebs.

Jayne Havens: Yes, you are. So am I. Well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me today. I will make sure all of your links and everything are in our show notes. And I hope that this will not be the first and last. I hope that there will be many more conversations just like this one from you here on the podcast. So thanks again.

Nichole Joy: Same. Thank you for having me. I had such a good time. See you, Jayne.

Jayne Havens: Bye-bye.

Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, it would mean so much to me if you would rate, review, and subscribe. When you rate, review, and subscribe, this helps the podcast reach a greater audience. I am so grateful for your support.

If you would like to learn more about how you can become a certified sleep consultant, head over to my Facebook Group, Becoming a Sleep Consultant or to my website thecpsm.com. Thanks so much, and I hope you will tune in for the next episode.