Nailing the Discovery Call with Alecia Kernus (ENCORE)

 

Alecia is a certified pediatric sleep consultant, former elementary school teacher, and mom with over a decade of hands-on experience working with children and families. Alecia left her job as an elementary school teacher after the birth of her second child, and a year later decided to enroll in Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. She graduated from the program in January of 2023 and has been working as a sleep consultant ever since. Alecia now enjoys the flexibility of working from home, and for herself, while still continuing to educate and support children and families.

 

 

Links:

Website: Seacoast Pediatric Sleep
Instagram: @seacoastpediatricsleep

If you would like to learn more about the Becoming a Sleep Consultant, please join our free Facebook Group or check out our CPSM Website.

Book a free discovery call to learn how you can become a Certified Sleep Consultant here.

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Transcript:

Intro: Welcome to Becoming a Sleep Consultant! I’m your host Jayne Havens, a certified sleep consultant and founder of both Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management.

On this podcast, I’ll be discussing the business side of sleep consulting. You’ll have an insider’s view on launching, growing, and even scaling a sleep consulting business. This is not a podcast about sleep training. This is a podcast about business building and entrepreneurship.

Alecia is a certified pediatric sleep consultant, former elementary school teacher, and mom with over a decade of hands-on experience working with children and families. Alecia left her job as an elementary school teacher after the birth of her second child, and a year later decided to enroll in Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. She graduated from the program in January of 2023 and has been working as a sleep consultant ever since. Alecia now enjoys the flexibility of working from home, and for herself, while still continuing to educate and support children and families.

Jayne Havens: Alecia, welcome to the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. I’m so excited to have this conversation with you today.

Alecia Kernus: Thanks, Jayne. I’m so excited to be here.

Jayne Havens: Before we get started, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and why you decided to become a sleep consultant?

Alecia Kernus: Sure. So my journey with sleep training really started after the birth of my son, my first child. I actually had a pretty traumatic birth and unexpected postpartum surgery, which led to some trauma and just my body needing to heal. When you have a three-week-old or a four-week-old who’s not sleeping, what you really need to do is to be able to sleep and heal. And so I decided that I had to find a way to get sleep under control in my house.

My sister-in-law recommended a sleep training book to me. I read it cover to cover, probably in a day or two. Really, it was all about sleep shaping with newborns. I got started, and I got him sleeping. It was the best thing ever. Then my daughter came along 18 months later, and I implemented all of the same strategies with her. She was sleeping great from day one. I always felt really confident and passionate about new moms being able to sleep, and that it was possible. So it sort of started there.

I was an elementary school teacher. I had been doing that for about 10 years. After the birth of my daughter, I decided that I wanted to be home more. I wanted more of a flexible schedule. So I decided to be a stay-at-home mom, which was something that I never expected for myself. That was never really a goal of mine, but I made that decision for our family.

I think I had been home for — I don’t even know if it was like a full year before I started going a little crazy. I was like, I need to do something. I’ve got to use my brain. I just wanted to work in some capacity. I actually thought that I would start tutoring online or doing something like that.

Then I stumbled across your course and I just thought, wow, this could be the perfect way to blend my passion for sleep and getting babies sleeping, and then still helping parents and families and supporting kids. It was sort of the perfect marriage of the two. I never even spoke to you. I just purchased the course and dove right in from there.

Jayne Havens: I love that. I love your story. I connect with it on so many levels because I also was working before having my kids but then decided to stay home. When you said you were looking to use your brain again, that spoke to me. Because I got into sleep consulting with that exact same sentiment — that I just needed to use my brain again. And what better way to do so than to blend your passion for healthy sleep habits for children. That was the same as me with actually growing a business, that you can work on while caring for your little babies. I love it.

Alecia Kernus: Yeah, it’s been such a great balance for me. If my kids are sick, no problem. I’m home. But I still get to work as much or as little as I want.

Jayne Havens: Perfect. I love it. The topic of today’s podcast is all about discovery calls. This was actually your idea to discuss this topic, which excites me to no end. Why do you think that people find discovery calls to be so challenging and scary, at least in the beginning?

Alecia Kernus: I think, for me, discovery calls gave me like job interview vibes. That’s how they felt to me. Because like I said, I was a teacher before. So I had no experience selling myself or the idea that I would have to sell myself to somebody other than when I was applying for jobs. I think that’s what it was for me at first.

But now I really come at them with a totally different mentality. I’m the person running the call. The goal is to hear what’s going on at home. I tell them how I can help them. I talk about what it looks like to work with me, and then they get to decide from there. So it’s less of them interviewing me and more of just a connection call. I think reframing my mindset really helped.

Jayne Havens: Okay. Let’s back up a second and start with the basics. Where are you connecting with these prospective clients, and then what’s your process for inviting them onto a discovery call?

Alecia Kernus: Sure. I get prospective clients in a number of different ways. The first thing that I do is, I have a little advertisement space on a local mom blog. It’s just a little tile that shows my website and whatnot. That’s the only actual advertisement or ads that I run for my business. It’s just local. Some moms find me through that. They stumble across my little tile.

Another way would just be Google. When people in my area search sleep consultant near me, I pop up. I’m one of the first ones to come up. They read my reviews, and they book a call. I would say that’s about how I get half of my clients. The other half are probably from referrals or people that are already in my circle that have come to a place in their life where they need support, and they know what I do because they talk about it online. So they’ll come to me.

Then the last way would be through Facebook. I do spend some time in different Facebook groups. And if I see somebody commenting a question about sleep, if it’s something that I want to answer or I feel like I could help them with, then I’ll make a comment. And that oftentimes leads to a PM. We’ll just chat back and forth a little bit. Then I’ll invite them to book a discovery call if I think it would make sense.

Jayne Havens: Okay. I think, actually, a lot of what you’re doing is really awesome because you’re setting yourself up for people to come to you rather than you to go to them. I’m always telling people, both inside of Center for Pediatric Sleep Management but also just in bigger picture when I’m talking about how to grow a sleep consulting business, I really think that if you can create this sense of authority where people are coming to you for help rather than you chasing down people for help, it makes business so much easier. I think you’re already doing a lot of that with being on that blog. I think that that sort of shows credibility and authority in the area where you live.

Search engine optimization, if you’ve sort of nailed that a little bit, that’s amazing. Because people trust Google. When a business comes up first, or second, or third, I think that there’s credibility there. Then what you’re doing inside of Facebook groups is amazing, too. You’re providing a certain level of information, advice, support. When you provide really good information, advice, support, then people come to you and ask you more questions. Then that positions you to invite them to a call.

I guess, let’s not forget the referral piece, too. I forgot to mention that. If your friends, or friends of friends, or former clients are sharing your name with their friends, then that makes it so much easier. They’re, of course, willing to get onto a free 15-minute call with you, I would imagine.

Alecia Kernus: Absolutely, yeah. I have two discovery calls today. One is someone from a Facebook group who actually came back around. We never made it to a discovery call, and she came back. I don’t even know how long, like a month later. She just messaged me yesterday and was like, “Hey, I think I’m ready.” And so we have a call today. Then someone else just popped up on my calendar. I have no idea who they are or how they found me, but I will definitely ask them. I’m not afraid to ask. Hey, how did you find me?

Jayne Havens: Yeah, that’s amazing. I love it. People are coming to you. That’s the best. Before you actually get onto this call with somebody, is there any information that you are trying to collect in advance? Are you trying to qualify these leads before you actually spend 15 to 20 minutes on the phone with them?

Alecia Kernus: Yes, so if someone finds me through Google or through that mom blog, whatever, and just books a call with me through my website and we’ve had no prior contact, then no, I’m not really pre-qualifying them. But I find those people to usually be pretty highly motivated. So that hasn’t been an issue for me so far.

When you do book a call on my website, I have a little section that pops up that gives them the option to provide me with some details about what’s going on. A lot of times, they do, but not always. Sometimes I’m going into it blindly. Ideally, I at least like to know how old the child is. If I cannot go in totally blind, that’s helpful. But if I don’t, it’s okay.

Then if it’s someone that I’m messaging with on Facebook, then I always tell them what they can expect out of the call. I’ll say, “If we get on a call, we can talk a little bit more about what’s going on at home. Then I can talk to you about what it could look like to work together.” So they know that it’s not a 15-minute ask-me-anything call. It’s, let me tell you about what it would look like to work together. I also check out their profile a little bit to see if it would make sense.

Personally, I like to work with people who live on the East Coast, in my time zone. Even I’m helping a family right now who’s in the Central Time Zone, even that one hour just totally throws me off. So I can’t even imagine if I was helping someone in another country. That’s just my thing.

Jayne Havens: Okay. Got you. When I have people come onto my calendar for a 15-minute discovery call — this is something I started doing a couple of years ago, and I found it to be so helpful — I ask them a few questions upon registration for that call. I ask them. Of course, I want their name, their email, and maybe what their biggest sleep challenge is of course so that I know what I’m up against. But I also ask them if they’re ready to hire a sleep consultant.

It’s a little drop-down menu. Their two choices are, “I’m still exploring options right now,” or maybe something along the lines of like, “If the call goes well, then I’m ready.” I don’t know exactly what the wording is. Then I also ask them to check a little box that says, “If your spouse is going to be a part of the decision-making process, I agree to have them on the call with me.” Because one thing that I noticed is that I would talk to moms, and I would have a great conversation with them, and they would say to me, “Oh, I have to go talk to my husband.”

Alecia Kernus: Always.

Jayne Havens: Actually, now before they even get on to the phone call with me, they’ve already checked the box that says if their husband is going to be a part of the decision-making process, that their husband is going to be on the call, or their spouse is going to be on the call. That has been a major game changer for me. Every once in a while, somebody will get on the phone without their spouse and still say, “I have to go talk to him.” It happens from time to time.

But I would say 80% to 90% of the discovery calls that I have both parents on the phone if it’s a two-parent household. I find that to be incredibly effective. Because then, they don’t have to play a game of telephone, or operator, or whatever it’s called where they’re passing the messaging from one person to another. They can hear it both from me. They can ask questions on the call. They can get off the call and have a really thoughtful conversation together about whether or not they agree that it’s a good fit to work together. I don’t know. That’s been really helpful for me.

Alecia Kernus: Yeah, I think that sounds great and something that I would consider doing. Because it usually ends in, “Okay. This sounds amazing. But let me talk to my husband.” Or, it’s, “He’ll do whatever because we just need to sleep.”

Jayne Havens: Yeah, actually, the other thing that I have I think on my drop down is I make them check a little box that says, “I have reviewed Jayne’s pricing on thesnoozefest.com.” I don’t want anyone to get onto a call with me and say, “So what do you charge?” Because if my services are not in line with their budget or what they’re comfortable with paying, then it doesn’t make sense. We’re wasting each other’s time, right? I want them to know before they get onto a phone call that my pricing is in line with their budget, that they see the value in what I’m offering.

The purpose of the call, for me, is just for us to make sure that we jive, that we get along, that we’re a good fit for working together. And really, it’s just supposed to make them feel more excited about getting started than anything else.

Alecia Kernus: Yeah, I love that.

Jayne Havens: Do you host your calls by phone or Zoom?

Alecia Kernus: When someone goes to book a call with me, they have the option to either book a phone call or book a Zoom call. I would say most people book a phone call, which is honestly my preference for a discovery call. But sometimes they book a Zoom call. I’m okay with whichever.

Jayne Havens: Okay. I love that you give them the choice. I actually do all of my discovery calls by phone. I prefer that too, mainly because I like to multitask. Sometimes when I’m on a discovery call, I’ll be folding laundry, or I’ll be straightening out one of my kids’ rooms. I also find that it helps me to have a more natural and comfortable conversation if I’m just doing something else casual. It helps me to feel more relatable, personable if I’m just another mom on the phone having a nice conversation with them. It can feel less intense, less serious if I’m doing something with my hands. I don’t know. It’s just something I’ve noticed over time.

Alecia Kernus: I agree. I prefer phone calls.

Jayne Havens: Walk me through what your discovery calls look like. So you call them, and they answer the phone. They’re like, “Hi, this is Melissa or whatever.” Walk me through what it looks like for you to have one of those 15-minute discovery calls.

Alecia Kernus: Sure. It looked pretty similar to what you teach in CPSM. I usually start by giving them an outline of the call, a little overview of what they can expect. I’ll tell them, “The way we usually run these calls is that you will tell me a little bit about what’s currently going on. I can fill in with some questions. Then at the end, we can talk about what it would look like for us to work together.” Then I say, “Does that sound good?” They always say yes, that sounds perfect. Then I hand it off to them.

They start talking, and I just listen. I take notes while they’re talking, anything that stands out or any questions that pop into my head. I really just give them the floor and listen. I might say like mm-hmm or wow. But other than that, I’m not really talking. Then when it seems like they’re wrapping up, I will ask any clarifying questions that I have to help me put the pieces together and understand fully what’s going on at home. Then when we’re done with that, I always make sure to sympathize with them. I tell them that it sounds like what they’re going through is really hard, that their child is so lucky to have them, all of those things that make them feel good.

Then I tell them that I can help them. That is when they take this big, deep breath, and they feel this sense of relief that someone can help them. Because when you’re drowning and someone says, “Here. I can help you,” that feels so, so good. I always tell them that I can help them. Then if it makes sense, I relate it back to either a client I’m currently working with that might be in a similar situation or a past client that I’ve had.

I actually just helped a mom who was also pregnant and bed sharing and needed to get their child sleeping before the birth of their second child. I let them see that I’ve helped other people in that situation and that it’s possible. That feels really good to them.

Then next, what I do is I diagnose the sleep issue for them. I’ll say something like, “It sounds to me Joe needs to gain some confidence falling asleep independently in his crib,” or, “Joe’s schedule is all over the place all day long, and it’s causing him to be totally overtired at bedtime and have a hard time settling down.” So I try to really give them that clarity of exactly what the issue is and what needs to be worked on. Because clarity is value for parents. A lot of times, it seems obvious to us what’s going on. Well, of course, they know that. But a lot of times, they don’t. So you just telling them where the issue is, that is value. That is helpful to them.

I’ve had parents who think that the problem is that their child’s bed is a twin-sized bed and not a king-sized bed like the bed in their room. That’s why the child wants to sleep in bed with them. It’s like the king-sized bed is not the issue here. So providing that what is really helpful. I don’t go into how exactly I would fix the issue. I just tell them what the issue is and what we would work on.

Then I just say, in terms of what it looks like to work with me, I have three options. Then I go over what the three different offers I have are, what they include. I tell them the investment for each one and then the result that they can expect from that investment. Yes, you’re telling them the price. But then, you’re also telling them right after what the result is, what’s that thing that they want that they’re going to get from it.

Then lastly, I ask them what questions they have for me. That is something that I would always forget to do in the beginning when I first started the discovery calls. But at that point, I’ve given them so much information. They always, always, always have questions at the end. So remembering to stop and ask them what questions they have.

Jayne Havens: How do you tie it all up with a bow at the end? They ask their questions, and you answer them. And then what?

Alecia Kernus: How I try to end it is by really helping them visualize what success would look like for them. So if it’s a mom who is a nurse and has a baby who’s up all night long, I will say, “By the end of our time together, you’ll be able to put him in his crib at bedtime. You shut the door. He’ll roll over and go to sleep. You can go downstairs and hang out with your husband for a couple of hours.”

“You can go to bed and sleep all night long. Wake up in the morning and be so excited to go get him out of his crib. Then you’ll go to work, and you’ll feel really rested and totally clear-headed. You don’t need three Starbucks coffees.” They’re usually drooling at that point. They’re like, “Oh, my gosh. Yes, that would be amazing.” Then I just say, “I can help you get there.”

Jayne Havens: I have two kids who sleep through the night, and I’m tempted to hire you right now. Yeah, that sounds amazing. What about objections? I mean, the two objections I often hear are: I don’t know if I want to spend the money or I can’t afford it, or I don’t know if now is the right time. How do you handle those objections?

Alecia Kernus: I’ve actually never had anyone tell me that they don’t want to spend the money at the point of when we get into a discovery call. I also need to raise my prices, but that’s different. That’s a separate issue. I haven’t had that one yet. I think that, in terms of the value, I think that comes across throughout the course of the call. I’m always trying to help parents with one really great piece of advice. A lot of times, that isn’t necessarily about sleep training. But it could be something totally different.

I just had a mom who was telling me about her child who was presenting with all these ADHD symptoms and needed to be squeezed at bedtime while he’s falling asleep. I went back to my teaching. I was like, “We need to do some heavy lifting before bed to help calm him and also tire him out.” And so even just that little piece of advice, I think, makes you stand out. It can provide value and make you seem worth it in a sense.

The common objection that I normally get would be crying. Parents worry about the crying. I try to normalize it and say crying is normal. Crying is communication. I am honest and say, “I have absolutely no idea how much or how little your child is going to cry.” I’m like, “A kid will cry over the red cup versus the blue cup.” I could have never predicted that, but they did. I always tell them that I will give them options so that if they’re really uncomfortable being away from their child while they’re crying, that I’m going to give them a sleep training option that would allow them to be really close to their child if they’re having difficulty. That feels good to them. We talked about that.

Then I would say the other objection, you mentioned not right now. Now’s not the right time. I guess I help them pick when the right time might be. Like if there’s vacations coming up or whatever, we time that up. And so yeah, that’s probably. Or, if they are worried about sickness, then I always tell them that if your child gets sick during the process, then I’m happy to pause. We can pick back up when they’re feeling better.

Jayne Havens: What’s coming across to me when I’m listening to you talk about how you conduct your discovery calls is really that you’ve developed a sense of confidence, not only in the way that you carry yourself on the calls but that you’re confident that you can help. I think that that is the key to really building a successful business, sleep consulting or anything else.

You really have to be able to show up confidently that you can provide value and get people the results they’re looking for. And if you really, truly believe that in your heart, then I think the way you communicate that comes across different. You end up instilling a level of confidence in your prospective clients that turns them into paying customers.

To some degree, I think that it takes practice. I’m sure you can feel this way the first time you ever got onto a discovery call. But also, I think not only does it take practice with discovery calls, but I think it takes practice with clients. Because when you first started as a sleep consultant, you probably weren’t showing up on discovery calls feeling like, I got you. We can do this. You’re like, I’m going to try my best. Right?

Alecia Kernus: Yes.

Jayne Havens: It’s a different vibe that you’re showing up with now. You’ve helped enough families. You’ve gotten them the transformation that they’re looking for. You’ve changed their lives for the better enough times to know that you’re not scared. You’re not scared if they’re a three-year-old. You know that you can. I say that to moms on the phone all the time. Like, “You might be afraid of your three-year-old, but I’m not afraid of your three-year-old.”

Alecia Kernus: I love that line.

Jayne Havens: I tell the moms that all the time. Like, “I am not scared of your three-year-old.” And really, when we show up as sleep consultants and we’re not afraid of their children. I love the way that you handle the crying objection. I don’t know if you learn that from me because that’s exactly how I handle it too. I don’t pretend that babies or children are not going to cry during the sleep training process.

There are a lot of sleep consultants out there who will try to sell the idea that they will coach them through a no-cry method, or this isn’t cry it out. We’re not going to be doing cry it out. I just don’t handle it that way. I try to help parents become more comfortable with their children’s communication and their children’s big feelings, and help them to realize that it’s okay for children to feel uncomfortable, to feel nervous, to feel overwhelmed, and for parents to support their children through that process of learning a new skill. That’s why I’m there. It’s to help the parents to feel more comfortable until their children become more comfortable. It sounds like that’s how you’re tackling it too, which is brilliant.

Alecia Kernus: Yeah, and I think that also comes with experience and being used to supporting a family with a child who might be crying a lot. I obviously trained my kids really early, and there wasn’t a lot of crying involved. And so when I first was supporting families and their kids were crying a lot, I’m a mom, too. I don’t like it. So it felt really scary. But now with the experience and seeing how short-lived it is and just getting more comfortable with it in general, I think that helps me show up for families in a really confident way.

Jayne Havens: What would you say are some common mistakes that sleep consultants are making on their discovery calls? Not that you’re sitting in on other people’s calls.

Alecia Kernus: I can talk about my own.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, sure. Maybe some mistakes you made along the way or what you think perhaps might be going on other people’s calls that aren’t working quite as well.

Alecia Kernus: I’m thinking back to my own discovery calls and when I used to feel like I would get off the phone and be like, oh, that didn’t go so well. Some things that I think were happening were, number one, I was probably talking too much and not listening enough. Then you find yourself rambling. You’re not asking them what are their questions, what are their concerns. And so you can’t address them if you’re the one doing all the talking, because you don’t know what they’re thinking. I think that was one mistake that I made. I’m sure other people make that along the way as well.

Another mistake would probably be telling parents how I would go about sleep training their child. I think that’s a mistake for a couple of reasons. One, you can’t possibly be giving the best possible advice in 15 minutes. I might be setting them up to fail even if my intentions are good. That’s number one.

Two, that’s what they’re hiring you for, so we’re not going to go into all of that on the free 15-minute call. Then three, you’re not providing them with options either, which is I think a huge selling point for what we do. It’s we give parents options, and they have time to think about it and pick the one that feels right to them. Then we support them through that option. I would say that is probably the biggest mistakes that are being made, for me at least.

Jayne Havens: All brilliant. Spot on. I was trying to think, as you were talking, if I can think of any others. I think you nailed the big three. So we’ll leave it at that. Since this podcast is all about business building and entrepreneurship, I would love to ask you what advice you would share for someone who’s perhaps at the beginning of their journey.

Alecia Kernus: That’s a tough one, because I just feel like I’ve learned so much along the way. But one thing that I think would’ve been good for me to hear early on is that my business was not an overnight success. It’s okay if your business is not taking off from the very beginning, in the way that you want it to, or if it feels really overwhelming or a lot of work, and things aren’t picking up really quickly. It took me six months to get to where I’m at today. That was for tons of different reasons.

But just don’t give up on yourself. Because if you keep going, if you keep putting one foot in front of the other, brick by brick, it’s going to come together. Eventually, something just clicks. You might not know what it is. I’m not sure that I can fully put my finger on what it is that clicked for me, but all I know is I kept going. And eventually, I just got to this place where my calendar started filling up and people started booking on, and I didn’t have to put in so much work to get all of these clients. It’s amazing. So just keep going. Don’t give up on yourself.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, that’s a really great message. If I remember back to where you were six months ago, you were hungry. You were hardworking. You were actually always really good at the sleep piece. I think, from the very beginning, you had a handle on it because you had gone through it with your own children and maybe helped some friends on the side before actually becoming certified. So you had a baseline knowledge. I think, as an outsider looking in, I think the major difference in you, in where you started versus where you are now, is you just gained your sea legs. You got your confidence.

I think, to some degree, the “reason for why people fail is because the give up before they gain momentum.” I’ve said that before, and I’ll say it again. Really, six months is not such a long time to be working on something. When you say your business was not an overnight success, fair enough, six months is a long time to work on something. But you’ve made a lot of progress and a lot of headway in a very relatively short period of time. I think a lot of people give up within that six-month mark. I think a lot of people don’t even give it a year or less to really get going.

And I’m proud of you for sticking with it. I’m proud of you for taking it upon yourself to really continue to learn and to take ownership for your own business, and systems, and skills. Because really, you’re nailing it.

Also, you’re six months in. So I can’t even wait to talk to you in another six months or in two years to see all that you’ve learned between now and then. I mean, I think you could be exponentially further along if we wait another six months or another year and a half, whatever that looks like. I know you feel like you’ve come such a long way, and you have. But the way I see this is like it’s so only just the beginning for you, and I think that that’s really exciting. So congratulations on your success.

Before we wrap up, share whatever you’d like to share — website, social media, whatever you want to share with our audience.

Alecia Kernus: Sure. I’m not huge on social media, but my website is seacoastpediatricsleep.com. I’m on Facebook. It’s just my name, Alecia Kernus. I do have an Instagram, although I’m not huge on Instagram. I’m trying. It’s @seacoastpediatricsleep.

Jayne Havens: Well, thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation with me today. Congrats again on all of your success. We’re happy to do this again one day soon.

Alecia Kernus: Great. Thanks. Jayne.

Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, it would mean so much to me if you would rate, review, and subscribe. When you rate, review, and subscribe, this helps the podcast reach a greater audience. I am so grateful for your support.

If you would like to learn more about how you can become a certified sleep consultant, head over to my Facebook Group, Becoming a Sleep Consultant or to my website thecpsm.com. Thanks so much, and I hope you will tune in for the next episode.