Intro: Welcome to Becoming a Sleep Consultant! I’m your host Jayne Havens, a certified sleep consultant and founder of both Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. On this podcast, I’ll be discussing the business side of sleep consulting. You’ll have an insider’s view on launching, growing, and even scaling a sleep consulting business. This is not a podcast about sleep training. This is a podcast about business building and entrepreneurship.
Jayne Havens: Sue is a Certified Pediatric Sleep Consultant and also a Certified Newborn Care Specialist. She founded Tender Care Newborn Services which is based out of Orlando Florida and serves families both nationally and internationally through her virtual services. Sue’s coaching helps teach little ones to sleep 8-12 hours a night, and allows everyone in the household to get the rest they need.
Sue began her journey working with children and families nearly 25 years ago as a nanny and educator. In the last several years, Sue has found that her passion lies not only in working with babies and families, but in helping them to conquer sleep challenges. Sue sets families up for success by providing parents with the tools they need to help their children learn to sleep reliably and peacefully. I absolutely love that. Sue, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being willing to chat with me today.
Sue Mcglinchey: Thank you for having me.
Jayne Havens: I wanted to bring you on the show to discuss what it looks like to step out of your comfort zone. But before we get to that, I think it would be really helpful if you share your story. Tell us a little bit about your business and how it’s evolved, especially in these past few years.
Sue Mcglinchey: Sure. So, as you gather from my introduction, I’ve worked with families and children for many, many years. But I’ll just go back to around 2016. I was working as a newborn nanny. I found out, through this family, all about sleep training and sleep conditioning. I was so intrigued that I began taking some courses and giving up working day times and finding families looking for overnight care. By 2018, I was so busy. Then there were many weeks. I was working with two families seven nights a week, 10 to 6. Coming home, trying to sleep for a few hours. Then I had a little side gig of consulting. So, needless to say, it was a lot but I did really, really love it. I was thriving with working with these families one on one. I’m really enjoying it. But, obviously, I can only be in so many places at once, and I was getting tired.
Around 2018, it was very interesting. I started meeting some nannies here in Orlando that were interested in working overnights. They just kept asking and asking if I would put them to work. So, one day I just said that’s it. I’m going to give us a shot. So, that’s when Tender Care formally became an agency and a business. I formed an LLC. I started building my team, training these girls to do exactly what I would do if I was in the home. By the end of the year, in the beginning of 2020, I had six or seven caregivers going out. I had phased myself out of most of the overnights, except to fill in once in a while.
So, it was amazing. I felt like it was such a great challenge. The challenge kept me going. Having that goal and making this happen was really exciting for me. But what I ended up finding was, managing people and a team wasn’t my passion. My passion is being with the families. I mean, truly, I would love to be in homes holding babies, cuddling babies. I love babies. But I’ll get into why I don’t do that anymore. But my passion wasn’t managing a team, doing the contracts, and doing all the back work. So, I quickly found myself burning out. When you’re a manager, you’re putting out fires. Getting into calls 30 minutes before the shift starts, having someone’s car break down, or they can’t make it to work. You’re just constantly doing that. I know people thrive that are really — that’s their gift. But that was not my gift. So, 2020 came. The agency was thriving financially. The girls were doing great, but I wasn’t really thriving in it.
So, it was around the end of 2020, the beginning of 2021, that I started talking to my husband about possibly moving this side gig into the forefront, and really getting into more virtual support. At that time, I thought I would probably do maybe a couple overnights here and there to help parents that really wanted the in-home training. I wasn’t sure, but I figured it would evolve.
So, what ended up happening there was, in 2020, we made a decision that I couldn’t quit the overnight nanny portion right away. We had contracts through the summer, but I wasn’t going to take on any more contracts. A couple of nannies were getting pregnant and wanting to move on, anyway. I didn’t really want to go through the new hiring process and all of that. So, we decided we would just let that phase out, and I would start really pushing these consulting jobs. However, around April, a few weeks later after making that decision, my husband traveled to Massachusetts to work for the summer. Within a week, he ended up in the hospital with COVID and pneumonia. So, having made that decision, prior to this happening, was an amazing timing. Because I was able to just take everything with me and just go to Massachusetts and be by his side. Obviously, I didn’t work for a lot of that time. But once he was out of the hospital and recovering, having this virtual business was just everything that I need. It was the best decision.
Jayne Havens: I didn’t know that you had already decided to pivot to virtual work when your husband got sick. That’s such an amazing blessing in disguise that you had already discussed that. This is the first I’m hearing of that. When I think of your story — this is just me knowing you from the internet — I just thought here you had this successful agency. You obviously knew your stuff when it came to sleep support. But I really always thought that your decision to pivot to virtual was because your husband became sick. I didn’t know that you had already decided that.
Sue Mcglinchey: Yeah, it’s really interesting. Because I’m not going to lie. I definitely had some doubts. I kept thinking even before he got sick, am I making the right decision? This is getting out of my comfort zone again. Can I really make this work? Then when he got sick, of course, we were in Massachusetts for six months. When we came back, I was, maybe I should go back to work nights and do consulting. But I couldn’t because of his health. I couldn’t risk exposing him to anything. He had gotten sick again. He may not have survived. I guess, a lot of people — I just think people know it, and they don’t know that part of the story. So, it’s really —
Jayne Havens: I think that’s really important to our conversation today. Because we came on today to talk about stepping outside of your comfort zone. I always thought that you were forced to step outside of your comfort zone. But you actually decided on your own to step outside of your comfort zone, which I actually think is really special and really awesome. Now, would you have gone through with it as aggressively as you did had your husband not gotten sick? I guess we’ll never know. Maybe that was the catalyst that really forced you into going for something that you had maybe dreamt on and thought about and discussed with friends. We’ll never know how quickly you would have sprung into action if your life had just carried on as normal, right?
Sue Mcglinchey: I think I probably would have kept lingering with sending some caregivers out and keep dipping my foot in that pool, so to speak, while working on the virtual part of it. But definitely, this happening to us has definitely pushed me forward. The decision was made, but then it just really made it solidified.
Jayne Havens: When I think about stepping outside of your comfort zone, the one thing that always comes to my mind is the fear around all of that. We all have so much fear around doing things that feel uncomfortable. So, I’d love to hear what your fears were. But I also am wondering if your fears were pushed to the backburner. Because your true fear was just like, is my husband going to be okay? I don’t really care about anything else. It’s sort of an interesting situation that you’re up against.
Sue Mcglinchey: Yes, and so I was thinking about that. I definitely had concerns when it came to the business. Was I going to be able to take on enough clients to make ends meet? But more importantly, would I be able to do that and keep giving the support that I wanted to give to them so that they had the outcomes they wanted, we build the relationship between us that I wanted them to have? I didn’t want anybody walking away feeling unfulfilled. Because my passion is for them to get their goals, meet their goals, and for me to help them. However, you’re correct. There was so much going on in our life back then, that it was really hard to put that in perspective at times when you’re really in survival mode. In some ways, it was helpful because I didn’t have to think about the business. I just did it.
Jayne Havens: You were forced into a fight or flight sort of mode.
Sue Mcglinchey: Exactly. So, I guess it was a blessing in disguise, because I didn’t have time to really think about what I was doing. I just went ahead and did it.
Jayne Havens: Your fear that you did express about not being able to connect with your clients as closely, and really meet their needs the same way virtually as you were doing when you were providing in-home support, I think that is a fear that I hear very often from the postpartum doulas and newborn care specialists that approached me about wanting to get into this line of work. That is a very common concern. They’re so used to being very hands-on. They’re doing everything in real time, physically there, connecting with the families, connecting with the children. Then all of a sudden, pivoting to a virtual support model where you’re relying on tools like Zoom, or FaceTime, or just text message support. Was that a major adjustment for you? Did you feel like you needed to — did it take some time to figure out how to still make that connection using different tools?
Sue Mcglinchey: So, I had been doing a lot of side gig consulting while doing the agency. So, I did have some experience doing that. I actually found it as an advantage — having had the hands-on experience as an advantage. Because I didn’t question if the methods would work because I had already done them in person. Biggest thing for me was being able to explain how to do them to the client. That was the hard part. It was learning how to articulate it, put it into words, put it into the plan, get on the phone with them, send them some videos on how to swaddle when they’re with a newborn, and just translating it to them without doing it in front of them.
Jayne Havens: Which I think doesn’t come naturally to a lot of people, especially if you’re so used to just like getting your hands all dirty and just getting in there and doing it. It’s one thing to do it. It’s another thing to explain something in a way that’s organized and clear, and concise, and thoughtful, and not rambling. Actually, the final assessment of the course inside of CPSM is to case studies based on former clients of mine. I asked students to write these sleep plans. The whole point of that is to figure out how to get your thoughts and your ideas onto paper in a way that an exhausted parent would understand very clearly. It’s harder than it sounds.
Sue Mcglinchey: It really is. Even getting on the phone with them and explaining it, it can be challenging. Because, exactly, they’re sleep-deprived. I can empathize with that. Because when I did overnights, I was sleep-deprived. So, I totally get it. Sometimes you just need to break things down to a very, very basic way.
Jayne Havens: Absolutely. Getting back to stepping outside of your comfort zone, do you feel that this is the type of thing that gets easier the more and more you do it?
Sue Mcglinchey: Yes, I do. I mean, even if I hadn’t gone through this whole thing with my husband, where that was more on the forefront so I didn’t have a lot of time to be uncomfortable over here on the business, I did keep reminding myself how I had to get out of my comfort zone to start my agency and to send caregivers out into homes. I’m not there supervising them was really, really scary. So, I kept thinking back on that and how successful I was able to do that, and how uncomfortable I was. I drew on that. If I could do that, I can do this. So, it really makes a difference. The more you do it, the easier it will get. It doesn’t feel easy, the first few times you’re doing a new one. But you have your past experiences to pull on.
Jayne Havens: Yeah, one of my favorite quotes is that you can’t be committed to both your dreams and your comfort zone. I feel like I live this every single day in my life. I think a lot of people look at me and they think, “Oh, this is easy for her. Business comes easy. Sleep consulting, she’s so good at this.” But I’m constantly operating outside of my own comfort zone. Yes, it gets easier to operate outside of your own comfort zone the more and more you do it. But it’s always outside of your comfort zone. If you’re growing, you always got to be a little bit uncomfortable. Would you agree with that?
Sue Mcglinchey: Yes, I do agree with that. But I’ll be honest. Right now, I wish I could just go back to those days. I was showing up for a job and coming home. There’s days where I wished for that. But I know I wouldn’t be fulfilled.
Jayne Havens: I think on a day to day basis — I’m glad you brought that up. Because on a day to day basis, I don’t think you need to be uncomfortable every single day. I think about my days in my business. Sometimes I’m not at all uncomfortable. I’m just like doing what I’m good at, and I’m doing what makes me feel good. I’m doing extra of that, because I don’t have the energy or the stamina to feel uncomfortable every single day.
But then, in order to make step forward, sometimes you have to get on a Zoom that feels scary, or you got to go buy some Facebook ads, or do something. You got to got do something. Right now, like the podcast was a big one for me. I was really excited about doing the podcast. It was something I’ve been wanting to do for a long time. But it’s really, really scary to put yourself out there and say, “Hey, listen to me every single week.” If I’m being really truthful, I’ve done, I don’t know, 20 some episodes. I haven’t done a single one by myself. That would be outside of my comfort zone right now. That’s not to say that I’m never going to do it. But so far, I haven’t. So, I like to point out these little things where even the people who seem like they’re always so comfortable, there are plenty of things that I’m uncomfortable about.
Sue Mcglinchey: Of course. Absolutely. I agree. I mean, we have to have our times of calm and then our times of really stepping out.
Jayne Havens: Is stepping outside of your comfort zone now a part of your business plan? Do you make a conscious effort to challenge yourself and to put yourself in a position to feel those butterflies in your stomach as you’re trying new things?
Sue Mcglinchey: I do. Like for instance, I am trying to do better with social media, for example. A few months ago, I started working on doing little reels that you see so common on Instagram, and getting my face out there versus just having written content. So, that was huge for me. I will keep working on that. It’s getting better as I do it. It’s getting better.
Jayne Havens: Your content is probably getting better. Then also, you’re yielding better results, I would imagine.
Sue Mcglinchey: Yeah, and I’m just more comfortable. I don’t over analyze every single little video I do now. Versus in the beginning, it would take hours just to do a 1 and 30-second snippet and release it. It felt that way.
Jayne Havens: It still takes me that long. That’s why I don’t do it. It literally takes me two hours to make a 16-second reel. I can’t do it.
Sue Mcglinchey: It’s so many retakes and doing over. I know. It’s hard. It’s really hard. Then at the end of the day, people are watching it literally for 30 seconds. So, I have to tell myself that.
Jayne Havens: Then they’re swiping you right away. They’re like, see you later. That was great. Goodbye.
Sue Mcglinchey: Right. They’re not going to remember. Well, hopefully, they’re going to remember when they need sleep. But it’s a definite comfort zone issue for me getting on there. I think my next step two would be probably doing some Facebook Lives or Instagram Live, which is super scary.
Jayne Havens: I was going to suggest public speaking. So many people, when I record these podcasts — and you said this to me off camera before we started, that you were so nervous, which by the way, you don’t sound nervous. So, you’re great at public speaking. But this, I think, is an amazing exercise. Just getting on, having this back and forth conversation, getting used to just showing up as the expert that you are. Even when it feels scary, you just sort of fake it till you make it and do the best you can. Then the next time, I hope that maybe this conversation will inspire you to step outside of your comfort zone and maybe go live on Instagram or on Facebook. I would love to do an Instagram live with you. Any time, we could go and do one of those.
Sue Mcglinchey: Absolutely. I mean, something I’d like to get back out in the public front as well. Maybe speaking at pre-schools or something of that nature, have mom groups possibly, or live Facebook groups. That’s in the future for sure.
Jayne Havens: Yeah, definitely. I was sort of brainstorming some ways that I’ve stepped outside of my comfort zone recently. I was thinking about — just this morning, I interviewed somebody to work for me as sort of an assistant, like a virtual assistant. But she’s actually local, so maybe she can do some in-person work with me. Just the idea. I’m sure you sort of touched on this earlier, the idea of like relying on somebody else to do the work that you’re so used to doing yourself.
Sue Mcglinchey: That’s scary.
Jayne Havens: It’s really, really scary. I’m not even expecting this person to do anything. She’s going to like make some graphics for me. It’s nothing that’s going to be make or break. But I have my way that I like to do things. Sometimes it feels easier to just do it myself than to spend the time to explain to somebody else how to do it.
Sue Mcglinchey: Yeah, I agree with that. I actually have a virtual assistant. She lives out in California. She does a lot of the postings for me on social media. I do the reels, and then she’ll put together the content. She does some other back, behind the scenes stuff for me, the newsletter and everything. Honestly, I love having her, but it was scary at first. But I love having her because she does the stuff that I don’t really enjoy. I know that I would not be keeping up with social media because of my past experience. I know I would have a hard time keeping up with that, the newsletter and all the other little things.
I think probably another big step for me will be as I get busier and busier with my clients, it’s having her take on more responsibility. Maybe reaching out to clients sometimes. I even started having her reach out to some of the clients and initiating a discussion. If I’m unavailable, setting up the time and getting them on a waiting list or referring them out. So, I have let her take on some of that. She’s done great. It’s hard, though. It’s really hard to let go of that. I want her to send me a copy of the email. You always want to be in the middle of it. But at some point, I have to allow things to happen.
Jayne Havens: Yeah. What about with pricing? How does it feel to raise your prices? Does that feel outside of your comfort zone, or is that just another thing?
Sue Mcglinchey: I’m getting better with that, too. I was actually going to mention that. Because every year or even sooner, if needed — because now that I’m full on just doing virtual support, I’m trying to streamline, find out how much time I really need on my packages, and hone in so that I can be more efficient. Every time I make a change, I do feel uncomfortable.
Jayne Havens: Actually, it’s interesting. When I was thinking about setting prices and how that can make you feel uncomfortable, there’s also a flip side to that coin. Because sometimes when I am starting to get overwhelmed in my business and I’m feeling like I’m spinning my wheels, sometimes raising my pricing makes me just refreshed and reinvigorated. So, it’s almost like it puts me back into my comfort zone to raise my prices. Because it puts me back to where I love to do the work.
Sue Mcglinchey: Right. For me, it’s a challenge. If I can raise my prices, I know I’m worth it. Then the clients keep coming in. You’ve overcome that challenge.
Jayne Havens: Yeah, it’s very validating.
Sue Mcglinchey: A challenge to push myself. I need a challenge. That’s how I am. It’s what keeps me going.
Jayne Havens: Yeah, so I guess when I hear you say that, I feel the same way. In order to keep going, I need to constantly feel challenged as well. I’m constantly setting up new challenges for myself. Like a month or so ago, I reached out to my web person who made my Center for Pediatric Sleep Management website. She did a beautiful job. I just hired her to redo my consulting website, my Snooze Fest website. It was fine. There was nothing wrong with it, but I was just feeling stale, like I needed a new project and a new challenge. What it did was, it challenged me to relook at all the copy on my website. It challenged me to really take a close eye and say like, “Is this what I want to be saying? What do these words mean? Are these words speaking to my ideal client, my ideal audience? Is this pricing serving me? Is this service serving me?” It wasn’t just about redoing my website. It was like challenging me to really step out of my comfort zone and challenge myself to really hone in on what it is that I’m doing here.
That proved to be such an invigorating exercise. Because now I’m excited and refreshed and energized and ready to get out there. The new website is not live yet. I’m almost there. But I love that challenge of like, let’s refresh this and make sure that I’m still really excited to put myself out there. I think that people who don’t have that in them, they struggle to grow. Because if you’re just comfortable being comfortable, then nothing changes. Like we say in sleep training — if nothing changes, nothing changes.
Sue Mcglinchey: I just actually used that quote with a client of mine today.
Jayne Havens: I use it every day. If nothing changes, then nothing changes.
Sue Mcglinchey: Exactly.
Jayne Havens: I think that that’s true with our families that we support, and it’s true with us as entrepreneurs.
Sue Mcglinchey: I agree. 100%.
Jayne Havens: Did you ever think that you’d be able to be in the position to make a living by fully providing virtual support? I’m wondering what sort of mindset work went into getting yourself there?
Sue Mcglinchey: I didn’t ever. When I first started out the overnights and then building into a business, I always thought that the consulting would be like a part-time thing. Even if we, as a family, got financially stable to where I could let go of the agency side, I just figured, well, the consulting will be a part-time thing because we won’t make as much income. I never really dreamed that it would become big like this.
Jayne Havens: How did you get yourself to a place where you — would you say that it’s sort of like you were forced into that mindset given your family circumstances? Or did you have to work on that from a mindset perspective? Were there things that you told yourself? Did you have to pump yourself up to get yourself to a place where you really believe that you are capable?
Sue Mcglinchey: So, I learned through social media that people were actually doing this full-time and making a great living at it. I felt as though if other people can do it, so can I. If I could make an agency and do what I did in the past, then I could do this. The mindset was — a lot of it was, I just drew on my faith and my belief in myself to make things happen, with the help of my faith. I just really felt like if other people can do this, why can’t I? Then of course, with everything that happened to us last year, there wasn’t any choice. So, when your back is against the wall, you make it happen.
Jayne Havens: You go for it.
Sue Mcglinchey: You go for it. I mean, when we first moved to Orlando in 2016, I was told by many people that there’s no overnight work here. “You’re never going to get work. It’s never going to happen.” I said, “No, there’s so many families here having babies every day. It’s going to happen.” In the very beginning, I built my own website. I researched SEO. I did it all myself, and I thrived. So, I figured if I can make that happen now, I’m not limited to Orlando. I’m limited to all of the United States. I have a whole following in Montreal, in Canada. The world is—
Jayne Havens: Your oyster.
Sue Mcglinchey: Yeah, exactly.
Jayne Havens: I love that that’s been your mindset. It’s my mindset, too. I think that it’s such a winning recipe for success when you’re in the entrepreneurial world. It’s to have the proper mindset. I cannot stress enough how important that is. I really think it’s the difference between people who make it and people who don’t. It’s like, do you just believe that you’re capable? There’s another quote. I’m going to botch it, but I’m going to try. There’s some sort of meme or quote that says like, if you don’t believe that you can make it, then you’re right. It’s something like that. If you don’t believe that you’re capable, then you’re not. You’re not. If you do believe that you’re capable, then you are.
You’re the only person that’s getting in your own way. There’s nobody else that can stop you besides you. It sounds cliche or cheesy or whatever to say. But it is really the truth, that we’re our own biggest roadblock to success. If we get out of our own way, the sky is the limit. We have all of these ideas in our head telling us this is going to be hard. This isn’t going to be possible. Nobody’s doing this. Nobody needs this. It’s crazy. It’s crazy talk.
Sue Mcglinchey: Yeah, the negative voices are the hardest thing to overcome.
Jayne Havens: I hear it — I sit across the Zoom every single day — from people who are interested in becoming sleep consultants. Almost all of them express self-doubt about their ability to be successful. So, it’s sort of like a full-time job I have of telling people that, I believe in you. But if you don’t believe in yourself, then you don’t have a chance. I’m happy to help you learn to believe in yourself. But if you don’t think that you can do it, then you can’t. If you do think that you can do it, you can. The only way that you ever fail is if you stop trying, and you quit.
Sue Mcglinchey: I was just going to say that. There is no failure. Because as long as you pick yourself up and you just keep moving, try something different. If something doesn’t work, you evolve into something else, just like I did with the agency.
Jayne Havens: Yeah, I love that.
Sue Mcglinchey: It was a time where I kept saying to myself, “Well, I failed.” Now I evolved.
Jayne Havens: I love that. That’s mindset, right? You could have seen any number of moments in your career as individual mini failures. We all have them, right? Every single day, I get on a discovery call with a family that maybe doesn’t hire me. It literally happens almost every single day. Nobody believes this about me. But not everybody that gets on the phone with me says, “Yeah, I want to work with you.” I’m not the right fit for everybody. I don’t land 100% of my clients or students into CPSM, or anything like that. We have to hear the word no to hear the word yes. If you get so caught up in all of the down portions of the roller coaster, you’ll never see the fun stuff.
Sue Mcglinchey: Right. I was going through some of my inquiry forms not very long ago. There were a lot that never signed up. But then if you look at all the ones that have, I look at all those other ones as practice. You have your practice discovery calls or your practice emails. Eventually, people come back. Even if not the first time, they’ll come back the second time. I’ve had people that didn’t sign up at all, but they still gave my name to someone else.
Jayne Havens: That happens to me all the time. All the time, people refer me that didn’t work with me. They’ll literally say, “I had a great conversation with Jayne. I didn’t hire her, but you should hire her.” Then the other family does.
Sue Mcglinchey: Yes. So, you’ll never know when you’re planting a seed. So, you just always have to keep that communication going. Then I hang up from discovery calls where I feel like they’re never going to sign up. Then they pay the invoice that day. You’ll just never know. People surprise me every day.
Jayne Havens: What’s on the horizon for you? What are you planning in the future? Any sort of big bold moves outside of your comfort zone that you are plotting that you want to share?
Sue Mcglinchey: I’m not really plotting anything, except maybe getting out there on some live social media soon, eventually. If I keep getting busier and busier, like I think I mentioned before, I’m definitely going to need to hand over more responsibility to other people. But I’m just not sure where I would do that. Because if I didn’t enjoy having a team — managing a team before, I’m not sure having a team of consultants is really a smart move. But maybe, I’ll learn a different way to do it. It’s very possible that I need a little more education on that end and learn a different way to do it, so I don’t feel like it’s such a burden.
Jayne Havens: Maybe it’s that you need to bring on somebody that has gone through the same training as you, and that is already up to speed. Actually, a few of the ladies within the CPSM community who have grown their businesses to the point where they want to take on consultants to work alongside of them or under them, however you want to say it, have reached out to me and said, “Hey, has anybody good come through the doors? Who can you recommend?” The interesting thing is, a lot of the ladies that are really green but really, really strong, they don’t want to go work for somebody else. They want to start their own business. So, the struggle is to find somebody that’s really, really strong that knows their stuff, but doesn’t want to do the business side and just wants to do the work. But now that I know that that’s sort of on the horizon for you, I will keep my eyes and ears open for you. We’ll see.
Sue Mcglinchey: Anything is possible.
Jayne Havens: Anything is possible. Well, thank you for taking the time to chat with me today. Before we wrap up, where can everybody find you? You want to share your website, social media? Share your Instagram since now you’re doing reels.
Sue Mcglinchey: It’s tendercarenewbornservices.com. It’s the same thing on Instagram @tendercarenewbornservices, Facebook Tendercare Newborn Services.
Jayne Havens: Sue, thank you so much for chatting with me. It was an absolute pleasure, and I can’t wait to reconnect soon.
Sue Mcglinchey: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, it would mean so much to me if you would rate, review, and subscribe. When you rate, review, and subscribe, this helps the podcast reach a greater audience. I am so grateful for your support.
If you would like to learn more about how you can become a certified sleep consultant, head over to my Facebook Group, Becoming a Sleep Consultant or to my website thecpsm.com. Thanks so much, and I hope you will tune in for the next episode.