Interested in becoming a sleep consultant? 

Jayne Havens is a certified sleep consultant and the founder of Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. As a leader in the industry, Jayne advocates for healthy sleep hygiene for children of all ages. Jayne launched her comprehensive sleep consultant certification course so she could train and mentor others to work in this emerging industry.

Meet Jayne Havens

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From a Student’s Perspective with Megan DuBose

From a Student's Perspective with Megan DuBose


Megan is currently a full-time manager at a global not-for-profit company and a mama to a 2.5 year old little girl. On a quest to find something to fill her cup as well as a passion project and additional source of income, she came across CPSM.

Megan is very passionate about child development and maternal mental health, and sleep is such a big part of that. Her eventual goal would be to leave her job and make this her full-time endeavor so she can be more present with her daughter and 13-year-old stepson. 


On this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast, Megan shares: 

  • How she juggles working full time, taking care of her children and getting through the course
  • What she is loving most about the certification process
  • That she had a few limiting beliefs before getting started, and how she overcame those thoughts so she could get going! 



If you would like to learn more about the Becoming a Sleep Consultant, please join our free Facebook Group or check out our CPSM Website.

Book a free discovery call to learn how you can become a Certified Sleep Consultant here.



Intro: Welcome to Becoming a Sleep Consultant! I’m your host Jayne Havens, a certified sleep consultant and founder of both Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management.

On this podcast, I’ll be discussing the business side of sleep consulting. You’ll have an insider’s view on launching, growing, and even scaling a sleep consulting business. This is not a podcast about sleep training. This is a podcast about business building and entrepreneurship.

Megan is currently a full-time manager at a global not-for-profit company and a mama to a two-and-a-half-year-old little girl. On a quest to find something to fill her cup as well as a passion project and additional source of income, she came across Center for Perdiatric Sleep Management. Megan is very passionate about child development and maternal mental health, and sleep is such a big part of that. Her eventual goal would be to leave her job and make this her full-time endeavor so she can be more present with her daughter and 13-year-old stepson.

Jayne Havens: Megan, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the podcast. I am so excited to have this conversation with you today. Welcome.

Megan DuBose: Thank you. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Jayne Havens: Sure. So before we get started, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Megan DuBose: Sure. I am a first-time mom. She is almost three now, which breaks my heart. I have a daughter. I also have a 13-year-old stepson, but I didn’t come into his life until he was about 9. So really, my little one is the boss, and I just do life as she says.

I also work full time for a global not for profit. My background is in project management. So, as you can imagine, I’m very type A and organized. I love to have a plan and love everything going to plan, which is not realistic especially with a little one. So through that, I’ve learned to really be flexible, understand that there’s curveballs, and also learn how to handle those curveballs effectively. Being a mom has been a great learning experience for sure. So while I definitely put a lot of focus on my professional life, mommyhood is a big part of me, too.

Jayne Havens: What made you want to get into sleep consulting? Why did you decide to become certified?

Megan DuBose: I have always been on the search for my ‘heart happy activity.’ It’s what I’ve always called it. Project management was never my goal ever. Being a mom was always my goal. Helping kids was my goal. I actually wanted to be a counselor for the longest time. And so I’ve always kind of been searching for what can fill my cup. I’ve done a lot of volunteering. I’m very active within Make-A-Wish, for example. I’ve dabbled in so many different volunteer things.

While those definitely help and I can make an impact and I see what I can do, I also want something that’s my own and that I can pour a lot more of myself into. And so I stumbled across you and your certification one day in a Facebook group and started looking into it. One thing since becoming a mom that I become extremely passionate about is maternal mental health. The impact of sleep is a big component of that, as well as lots of other factors. But it’s hard to handle those other factors if you’re also exhausted.

And so I think being able to know how to get your baby to sleep and soothe themselves, and you being able to step away and also have time to focus on yourself is so critical to being able to really enjoy that precious time of motherhood, especially with a young baby. I want to be able to help other moms or dads, step parents, foster parents, whatever, be able to enjoy that period as much as possible too. So yeah, that’s really what got me interested. I kind of checked all of the boxes, and I jumped in pretty quickly once I learned about it.

Jayne Havens: I think you enrolled about a month ago. I just checked this morning. You’re about halfway through the course. How’s it going so far? Are you enjoying the process?

Megan DuBose: Yes, I am. I love it. I’ve taken lots of training and certification courses through my life, and I really, really liked this one. It’s practical. It’s easy to understand and apply. And it’s not boring. So many are boring and hard to get through and just feel like such a chore. I truly, truly enjoy this one. It’s given in a way that you understand what you’re learning about, but you also understand how to then give that back to a client, or a parent, or yourself.

I’ve jotted down some nuggets for myself as we go into toddler sleep. So it’s been really enjoyable for me. And to also look back, like, oh, how did I do this without even knowing what I was doing, and start to make those connections and being able to listen to some of the group sessions that you’ve done. Then you’d pair it with books. And so you’re able to get learnings in a lot of different ways, which is also really good for people who learn in various methods. I can really tell that you put a lot of heart behind it and that it’s really thought through. I am really, really enjoying it. So I appreciate everything you put into it.

Jayne Havens: I’m so glad. People ask me all the time, like, “How long is it going to take to get through the course or how much—?” The question is really, “How much am I going to have to put into this?” I always answer them by saying: I find that people actually want to do this. The people who enroll in CPSM are really excited about getting into this field. Once they start with their learning, a lot of people will message me. I think you’re one of them who maybe did this, saying like “I’m just loving this. I’m really enjoying this. I’m getting through it faster than I intended, because I don’t want to put it down.” That just makes me so happy.

Because I recognize you have a busy life. Like for you, you’re working full time. You have a little one at home. You’re not sitting around. You’re not twiddling your thumbs, right? So in order for you to get through it, you have to enjoy it. Otherwise, you’re not going to prioritize it. With that being said, is there something that you liked the most about the course? Is there a particular training that spoke to you? Is there a certain video or a certain reading that you loved, or maybe it’s the Facebook group? I don’t know.

Megan DuBose: Yeah, I just like the fact that there are so many different approaches to the same content. Being able to read it, I like to write everything down. That’s how I remember things. So I would read through the content, make notes, and then I would listen to the group session as I was doing the dishes or whatever at night. Hearing you connect it and how you would present it back kind of put a bow on everything. And so I really liked that.

Also, maybe it’s just because I’m interested in it, and I haven’t been interested in something that I’m learning in a long time. Don’t tell my boss. I feel like I am really absorbing it. I think that has to do with how you’re presenting it, as well as the fact that I enjoy learning about it. I recently did the assignment. I don’t know how I did on it yet, so we’ll see. But I didn’t struggle with the assignment. I think that really speaks volumes.

Because so often, you’re going back and looking through your notes and like, oh, did I say this right, or did I say that right? I felt like it was very natural for me to respond to the questions, which is how it should be. And so the fact that the course facilitated that for me was really meaningful. Because while I learned well, I still won’t be like, okay, let me go back to these questions. I still have to go back to my notes. It’s like writing an essay. And this didn’t feel like that at all.

And so the fact that it facilitated that kind of learning was very important to me. It also gave me a sense of purpose and satisfaction that I don’t normally receive. And yeah, I’m definitely excited to finish the course once I get the feedback on my assignment. And yeah, it’s not a chore, which I think is really, really important. It’s something that I’ll do after I put her to bed. I’m doing it late at night when I’m tired, but I do it because I like it. It gives me energy and excites me. And so that’s what I’ll spend my night times doing.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I love that. I think that when you enjoy learning about something, it positions you to do the work better, right? I have been supporting families through sleep training for 11 years now ever since my son was born. I mean, frankly, almost 12 years at this point. I still love to learn about this stuff. I still read books. I still take continuing education online. I think that when you’re really passionate about the work that you’re doing, you want to continue to learn. And that positions you to be better at your job.

Even though you’re just at the beginning of your journey, it’s very clear that you’re in that lane. And I’m excited for you. I think you’re going to do very well in this field. I’m wondering how you’re managing your time. You said a little bit like you’re cracking open the computer when your daughter goes to bed. Is that primarily how you’re working this? You’re working all day at work. You get home. I’m sure you do dinner and bath and bed and then you’re getting to work at night. Or does it look different? I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

Megan DuBose: Yeah, for the most part, that’s what it looks like. If I have a lull during my day, I’ll get through as much as I can as well. Same with the weekends, like while she’s taking a nap or while she’s entertaining herself, just whenever free time appears, that’s when I’ll try to knock some out.

But yeah, most of it does happen at night. But like I said, it’s not an exhausting thing to do. It’s not just another nighttime chore, so it doesn’t feel burdensome to do that. I have been going through it fairly fast. So I don’t think it is something that you have to do every night after the kids go to bed. You could do it on the weekends. You could do it one night a week. You can really make it whatever you want it to be. But for me, that’s just what I’ve craved doing. And so that’s what I’ve made work.

Jayne Havens: Are you setting goals for yourself, as far as how long it’s going to take you to get through the course when you enrolled? Did you say I want to be done with this training within two months or two years? Did you set any timeline for yourself, and are you keeping to it?

Megan DuBose: So my goal, it was somewhat aggressive. But if I don’t have an ambitious goal, I don’t push myself. So my goal was to be able to go through the course, establish my business, and make back buy investment within three months. So, aggressive, like I said. But so far, I’m not behind. I still have time. I have an idea for a business name and logos and like all of that stuff. So it’s really just getting to a point where I can start to put all of that into action. Hopefully, my excitement and passion will bring clients, and I can make that happen. But if not, it’s okay. But I’ll at least get everything established and ready to go by then.

Jayne Havens: Perfect. One thing I think that sets Center for Pediatric Sleep Management apart from other programs is our community. Have you made it a point to participate within the community yet, or are you still just lurking and maybe planning to jump in more once you finish the program?

Megan DuBose: Yeah, I’m still mostly lurking, to be honest. But the community is awesome, I can tell. There’s multiple posts a day of people asking for feedback or opinions. “I’m stuck. What should I do next?” There’s never a shortage of responses. I feel like every posts gets someone responding, whether it’s you or other sleep consultants in the group. I think the fact that you will also make a point when you can to respond and give your input is also really meaningful and something you don’t see a lot.

Of course, you can’t do it for everyone and every post. But the fact that you even attempt to do what you can, I think, means a lot to the community as well and shows that we are all in it together. That means a lot for someone who is coming in new, that people who have been doing this for years still have questions and still need help. That’s not frowned upon, and that’s not taboo. It’s totally okay.

I feel confident that if I got a client that I wasn’t 100% sure what to do with or if it’s my first sleep plan that I’m coming up with and I’m like, oh, I don’t know. I just want to kind of post check this, that there would be someone who would be there to offer their assistance.

Jayne Havens: For sure. I remember when I was first getting started in this business, and I personally didn’t feel that I had that support. I didn’t have a community that really had my back. That’s ultimately what set me on this journey to create my own certification program. It was to facilitate an environment, a community of support and collaboration and camaraderie. Because I think that entrepreneurship is tough. It’s lonely. I want all of our CPSM students and grads to feel a part of something. I want them to feel supported. I don’t want them to feel like they have to figure it out on their own.

We have so many smart, savvy, creative people inside of our community. It just makes me so happy that they are all willing to share their own zone of genius with the rest of our crew. I work very hard to make sure that that vibe maintains even as our community grows. Actually, I used to answer pretty much every single post inside of the Facebook group. I still think I answered probably more than half if I had to guess. But as the program has grown, we put into place other group experts who are taking more of a leadership role in answering those questions.

Then I love that people like you might chime in and answer. Even if you don’t have your certification yet, if you’re not done, you still have life experience. Still, you’ve digested some of the curriculum. That doesn’t mean that your opinion or your thoughts aren’t valid. And so I love that there are so many people inside of our community that are willing to share their thoughts and their expertise with everybody else. Because I just think it makes it easier to carry on with the day when you have some people to rally behind you and support you. I personally think that that makes all the difference.

I’m wondering if when you were sort of weighing whether or not you were going to enroll in the program, were there any sort of mental objections that were getting in the way? Any sort of limiting beliefs or obstacles that were having you hesitate? Or were you just like, I’m excited about this; I’m jumping in?

Megan DuBose: Yeah, there were some things that made me think. One being just the stigma around sleep training and people associating it with just leaving your baby in bed crying. One thing that I think is unique about this program is that that’s not the only option. We’re not just leaving a baby in the crib to cry forever. That’s not the point and not the purpose. Even one thing that’s taught within the course is that crying is not necessarily that they’re sad, or unhappy, or anything like that. They’re learning something new. Just like if they’re trying to crawl and they get frustrated, they’re crying. We don’t panic over that. It’s just part of the learning process.

So while crying it out isn’t a method, it is a method. There are a handful of other methods that are also taught within the course. So that was a big way to overcome that barrier for me. That, yes, I would have that sleep consultant name attached to me, but I would be able to meet parents where they are, and also the baby’s where they are as well. So if they want something that’s gradual, we can do gradual and gentle. If they want something like quick and dirty, we can do quick and dirty. So being able to kind of combat that narrative was really meaningful for me.

Another thing for me was just, do I have what it takes? And can I still succeed when there are other people out there succeeding? That’s one conversation that I had with you. I asked you that question. Like, is the market too saturated? Do I have a chance?

Kind of the pep talk you gave me was: “You have a chance if you want a chance. It’s what you put in it. And if you want it, you can have it. There’s still so much opportunity for sleep consultants in the world. There is still this kind of negative association in some places. And so how do we kind of uplift the industry and show the benefits of sleep consulting? The more of us there are, the more that we can change that narrative.” And so that little pep talk also helped that barrier and mental block I have in my head.

I still sometimes doubt myself, to be totally transparent, but I also have doubted myself for ideas for so long that I need to just try it. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. I learned something new, and that’s fine. You can learn from failures. But I feel like this is something where I’m equipped with enough resources, with enough of a community, with enough passion and why behind it that I can be successful. I can just determine what that level of success looks like if it remains just this little side hustle passion project, or maybe I can leave corporate America and not have to answer to anyone anymore, which would be an ideal situation.

Jayne Havens: Wouldn’t that be great? Yeah, that would just be fabulous.

Megan DuBose: Yeah.

Jayne Havens: I think it’s really common to have those limiting beliefs. Like, are there already too many people doing this? It’s funny, the way you said it. I think you’ve said something about, like, there are already so many successful sleep consultants. The fact that you thought that and that gave you doubt just speaks to the mindset work that will be necessary in order for you and so many people like you to be successful. Because the way that I see that is, like, there are other people successful in this field. That’s proof of concept. That’s proof. That doesn’t mean that you can’t do it. That means that you can, right?

Megan DuBose: Right.

Jayne Havens: If there are other people out there doing this successfully, that means that you can do it too. Right? It’s not that there’s no room for you. It’s so funny that people worry about that. It’s funny to me. Because does anybody not get into occupational therapy, or does anybody not get into the field of law because too many people are doing it? No, you do it because you love it, and you’re passionate about it. You’re excited about the work. You think you’d be good at it, so you get in and you go. Right?

And so I think that, really, the thing that gets in the way — and it’s so common. The conversation I had with you that day, I’ve had that conversation probably 500 times if I had to guess. Really, it’s just like our own mindset, our own limiting beliefs, our own fear of failure that gets in the way. The irony is that we’re often sometimes so afraid to fail that we don’t even try. Then by default, you fail because you literally didn’t even try. So then, you fail by default.

I think that in entrepreneurship, really, the only way to fail is to give up. You will make baby steps. You might not grow at the pace that you envisioned. You might not get a complete return on investment within three months. I hope that you do, and we’re going to have a conversation about that about two months from now. Because I believe that you’re capable, and I believe that you can. But if you don’t, that doesn’t mean that you’re a failure. It just means you’re on your way. Your growth and your progress is a little bit slower than you originally projected. That’s not a failure. That’s just, you’re on your way.

I think so many, especially women, but entrepreneurs in general, have this idea of some sort of fast track that’s either unrealistic or it’s just one way to grow. There’s a lot of ways to grow. Especially, for those of you who are working full time, you have young kids at home. You’re juggling the world.

And if entrepreneurship was so easy, if it was like you could just snap your fingers and be a sleep consultant and leave your full-time job, if it was that easy, literally, everybody would do it. Right? Nobody would go work in corporate America if they could just have a business wearing a sweatshirt, sitting at their kitchen table, going to take a tennis lesson in the middle of the day. That’s my day to day. I’m literally sitting—

Megan DuBose: Yeah, that’s what I’m aiming for.

Jayne Havens: Right. And if it were so easy, literally, everybody would do it. Right? So it is hard. It does take grit and determination and perseverance and time. I think that, really, failure just happens when people give up before they gain momentum or before they gain traction. And so I think, really, the field of sleep consulting is, we’re just getting started. Right now, most new moms don’t even know that sleep consultants exist, right? Like most new moms who just had babies don’t even know that this service is available to them.

To me, that shows how much education we have to put out into the universe. It shows how much growth there is. Like right now, if one of your friends has a baby tomorrow, and they’re going to try and breastfeed, 9 out of 10, they’re probably going to hire a lactation consultant. Right? And so I think that we’re going to get there with sleep consulting one day.

Just like people don’t even flinch about buying an $800 stroller, people are not going to flinch about hiring a sleep consultant. But we’re just not there yet. Right? And so I think that there’s so much growth and so much room for as many of us who want to have successful businesses. It just takes time and energy and the patience to gain your footing.

Actually, I’ve been thinking a lot about this recently because I’m enrolled in a parenting coaching certification course. And so I’m learning. I’m starting from the beginning. I’m learning new stuff, and I’m having a hard time regurgitating what I’m learning in a way that are like my words. I don’t want to just use the words that are in the training. I want to create my own verbiage. I want to create my own talking points. I want to talk about it in a way that I own. But because I’m brand new at doing this, I’m fumbling over my words, or I’m getting tripped up, or I’m getting insecure about talking about myself in a way that’s confident.

It’s really giving me food for thought. Because it’s like, okay, this is how everybody feels inside of CPSM when they’re just getting started. And it can feel so easy to just be like, you know what? I’m not going to do this. This feels really hard. I’m going to just sit here quietly and worry about it but not actually put myself out there. And so I’m having those feelings that you all are having right now. It’s giving me really good perspective, and it’s putting me I think in your shoes.

All I can say is that that discomfort that we all feel when we’re getting into something new, especially career-wise, that discomfort is ultimately what positions us to grow. You have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I’ve had many years of experience with being uncomfortable, so I can get over it perhaps easier than some of you guys.

But I have no doubt that you will be successful as long as you don’t give up before gaining traction. That’s literally it. I think a lot of certified sleep consultants, like CPSM grads and probably graduates from other programs who listen to this podcast, but also many aspiring sleep consultants are listening to it also. What would you say to those who are thinking about enrolling in the program, but perhaps they’re nervous to jump in?

Megan DuBose: Yeah, I would say like if this field interests you at all, this is the way to get into it. So like I mentioned before, the community is so vital. I have yet to see a post that’s negative, where someone is like, “I’ve been trying this for six months, and I still don’t have a client.” I haven’t seen any post like that. They’re all positive, like, “I have this client. What do I do?” And so people are finding work. They’re finding people that want their services. And so, again, getting past that mental block I think is really important.

You, Jayne, are very accessible and open and willing to provide feedback or answer questions. I think that is also such a great resource. You’ve built this from the ground up, and you have so much insight and experience. I think that is also a very critical component and a unique aspect to this particular course and certification.

I would also put yourself either back in the shoes as a parent with a newborn. Or if you have not had a child, try to put yourself in the shoes of that mother or father or fill-in parent. Because when you’re in the thick of it, you may not think about, “Oh, let me reach out to a sleep consultant.” Or, “Oh, I remember this method. Let me implement XYZ.” You are just so tired and overwhelmed and are just trying to make sure that your baby thrives and stays alive, and you get to the next day.

And so being able to serve a parent who is in the thick of it and make something easier for them is so meaningful. And so you don’t have to think of this as, “Oh, I have this business that I’m going to push on parents.” It’s not that. It’s literally a service that you’re giving to a parent who is in need inevitably. No baby just comes out and automatically knows how to sleep. I had a fantastic sleeper. I still spend a lot of time researching wake windows, and when should my baby transition to XYZ? Should I use a passy? Should I not?

She did more or less come out already on a schedule. I did get very lucky with her, but there was still a need even despite that. And so I think you have to really think about who you’re serving. Is that a passion for you? And if yes, then this is a true resource. It’s not just about a certification or a course. This is really a resource for you to be able to give that service to the world.

Jayne Havens: Thank you so much for saying that. I love that you touched on the fact that it doesn’t have to feel like you’re selling something. We really, truly are showing up to serve and to help people. I think, especially for female entrepreneurs, that’s something that mindset shift or that reframe is really helpful in order to get us to show up in a way that’s truly authentic. We get into this line of work not to make a million bucks. We get into this line of work to help moms and dads and to make parenting a little bit easier and to make those early months, frankly, toddlerhood and preschool hood, all of that.

I work with a lot of older kids. I actually work with very few infants these days. I work with mostly like three, four, or five year olds. Those years can be very overwhelming and challenging for parents who have a child that refuses to go to bed. The way that I look at my business is, you’re right, I help families solve a problem. And yes, there is a money exchange there. They pay me for my services, but I’m literally changing their lives.

I am working with a four year old who literally five or six days ago was running the house. Not just from a sleep perspective but just, overall, she was in charge of their household. And just by making some simple, dynamic shifts and re-establishing boundaries and expectations first around sleep, but then parents were able to take those tools and apply them during the daytime as well, has been a complete shift in dynamic and their household.

Honestly, I think they would have paid me quadruple. If they knew the change that was going to happen in their household, they would have paid me quadruple. I mean, literally, we got it done in three or four days. This whole household dynamic has shifted entirely. And that is serving families. That is not about me selling them my two-week sleep consultation. That is about me changing their lives and making their household a more pleasant place for all of them. That’s priceless, as far as I’m concerned.

I’m really glad to hear you say that. I can’t wait to see you get going. I really can’t wait to see you launch your business. I hope that when you do, you’ll come back onto the podcast and share your business name. Share your Instagram and your website or whatever you decide to put forth into the world. And congrats on just deciding to make the decision to work on this and to fill your own cup, as you said in the beginning of this interview. I just can’t wait to see you get going. So thank you for taking the time to share your story.

Megan DuBose: Yes, thank you.

Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, it would mean so much to me if you would rate, review, and subscribe. When you rate, review, and subscribe, this helps the podcast reach a greater audience. I am so grateful for your support.

If you would like to learn more about how you can become a certified sleep consultant, head over to my Facebook Group, Becoming a Sleep Consultant or to my website thecpsm.com. Thanks so much, and I hope you will tune in for the next episode.

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