Interested in becoming a sleep consultant? 

Jayne Havens is a certified sleep consultant and the founder of Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. As a leader in the industry, Jayne advocates for healthy sleep hygiene for children of all ages. Jayne launched her comprehensive sleep consultant certification course so she could train and mentor others to work in this emerging industry.

Meet Jayne Havens

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 Sleep Consultant?

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Leveraging Pinterest to Grow your Sleep Consulting Business

Leveraging Pinterest to Grow your Sleep Consulting Business

Kelsey Vetter is a Pinterest manager and strategist who helps online businesses leverage the power of Pinterest to drive traffic to their website, generate new leads and grow their audience on autopilot. 

On this episode we discuss:

– How Pinterest works and why it’s a great tool for Sleep Consultants to be using
– The importance of blogging
– Best practices for DIYing Pinterest, and when it’s time to outsource to a Pinterest Manager



Freebies from Kelsey:

Inspire with Idea Pins Mini Course
Key to Keywords Mini Course
Set it & Forget it, Scheduling for Pinterest Mini Courses
The Ultimate Pinterest Business Account Set Up Checklist

Join our Facebook group to learn more about Becoming a Certified Sleep Consultant



Jayne Havens: Kelsey Vetter is a Pinterest manager and strategist who helps online businesses leverage the power of Pinterest to drive traffic to their website, generate new leads, and grow their audience on autopilot. Kelsey, thank you so much for being on the show today. I’m so excited to talk to you.

Kelsey Vetter: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Me, too.

Jayne Havens: Before we get started, would you share with us a little bit about how you got into this line of work.

Kelsey Vetter: I worked in marketing in the fashion industry here in Los Angeles, where I lived for 11 years. My background is in marketing. But I was completely burned out by the fashion industry about two years ago and knew I needed to escape that industry and start something of my own. I decided that I would go the route of E-commerce and start an online shop because it just kind of made sense with my background. I found Pinterest marketing, I saw the power and I loved it. It was really great. But I realized that E-commerce was just too similar to what I was trying to escape and that industry. So I ditched that and loved the Pinterest marketing and wanted to stick with that. I started managing some accounts on the side until I could build it up enough to take my business full time to where I’m at today.

Jayne Havens:  Which is so exciting. I love when that happens. You sort of fell into it a little bit and realized that it was your passion. Now you’re able to do the work that you truly love.

Kelsey Vetter: Which is really awesome. It’s amazing when it happens organically like that you can just find your purpose without forcing it.

Jayne Havens: Yes, I love that. But for those that are listening and totally clueless, can you explain to us how Pinterest works?

Kelsey Vetter: Yes. Pinterest is actually a search engine. It’s the third-largest search engine in the world behind Google and YouTube. Often people think of Pinterest as just another social media platform, because we see it grouped together with Facebook and Instagram. But it’s actually not a social media platform at all. So it is becoming a little bit more social than ever before. But by nature, it is a visual search engine. It works a lot like Google. So your Pinterest account has to be SEO optimized, just like how your website would need to be SEO optimized to rank on the first page of Google. The same thing with Pinterest, we need to SEO optimize your entire account so the algorithm can read and understand what you’re about to show you at the top of the search feed.

Jayne Havens: Ok, Why is blogging such an important component to Pinteresting?

Kelsey Vetter: Pinterest marketing. But I liked it Pinteresting. I think we could make that a thing. Blogging is super important to Pinterest because Pinterest users are coming to the platform with a problem they are looking to solve, for example, they’re new mothers, they’re super tired. They don’t know why their baby’s not sleeping. So they’re coming to the platform searching for answers and solutions. So they land on a pin, it has the solution like for baby sleep tips, you click out on the pin, it lands on your blog. They’re consuming your free content. They’re consuming your blog content. They say this is awesome. They know what they want, but they are too tired to implement it. They are just gonna hire them. So having a blog and having free resources and other free resources, even like a lead magnet, like an ebook or a masterclass is crucial to your success on Pinterest because Pinterest users are expecting those free resources. And they’re willing to give you something like their email address or their dollar if they don’t want to implement those free tips on their own.

Jayne Havens: Yes, So for those that are totally new to Pinterest, and are just wrapping their heads around this, I want to make sure that people fully understand people are going to Pinterest the same way that they go to Google. They’re looking to find an answer to their question or to their problem. And Pinterest is just a more visual search engine, right? Because instead of linking directly to articles, they’re linking to pins or images, which are pretty to the eyes, right? They’re attractive, and you look at them and you’re like, That looks pretty and then you click on it and it takes you to the blog post.

Kelsey Vetter: Right. Pinterest, Is a lead-generating platform. So they’re problem aware, they know they are looking for something that they can use or implement later in their life. They find your beautiful pin, click on it and they become aware of your brand. Be calm in your brand ecosystem, maybe get on your email list, maybe join your Facebook group and from there you can nurture them through your sales funnel and they can become a paying client

Jayne Havens: Yes, So when online business owners are weighing their options for how to grow their presence online, I feel like people often feel pulled in a lot of different directions, right? Like, do I focus on Instagram? Do I focus on Facebook? Do I write four blog posts a month? You know, there are so many different ways that you can increase your presence online. Why is Pinterest a great place to start? Or why is Pinterest a great option?

Kelsey Vetter: Yes, I know it can feel very overwhelming when you say you need to be on Pinterest. But it’s just another platform for me to be on. But Pinterest is specifically for sleep coaches because there are over 400 million monthly users on Pinterest, and 80% of all mothers in the US that have access to the internet have a Pinterest account. So your ideal client, your target market, they’re hanging out on Pinterest, you want to be marketing to them there because we already know they’re also Pinterest users who are conditioned to click out of the platform and land on your website. So whereas on Instagram, and Tiktok, which are great platforms, they definitely have their place, you’re kind of hoping that new moms find you, you’re hoping that they click out onto the link in your bio, you’re kind of asking them to click the link in your bio, and you’re not sure if they will and it’s a little bit more effort on Pinterest, you know that that warm audience, anyone who’s searching baby sleep tips is going to be who’s clicking on your content. And they’re conditioned to click from your pin onto your website. So it’s just a much more efficient way to generate those leads for your business as opposed to the kind of begging people to click the link in your bio.

Jayne Havens: Yes, I think that’s really super spot on. I mean, I would expect to view your Pinterest manager, but I think that’s exactly right. You know, I think about all the time that I spend on Instagram stories curating this really thoughtful post on Instagram, and people will read it and they’ll like it. And maybe they’ll even save it. But they’re not making their way to my website. And that’s sort of like the end of it. They think that was really thoughtful or that was a really pretty picture, or that really resonated with me. But then a lot of the time that’s it right? And with Pinterest, they’re specifically going there for a very specific targeted need, a question that they have a solution to, a problem they’re looking to solve. When they find that pin that resonates with them, they’re clicking on to read your website with your resources. And that’s huge.

Kelsey Vetter: Exactly. Pinterest is the best platform for driving traffic. So if you have good systems in place on your website, like good your email list or a banner to join your Facebook group, you’re gonna get clients potential leads, warm leads, who you know, are the right kind of target audience into your brand ecosystem much quicker than you could potentially on some social media platforms like Instagram or Tiktok.

Jayne Havens: Ok, that makes perfect sense. So for somebody who’s not really ready to hire a Pinterest manager, what’s a good place to start? As far as like DIY? Hang this? What should be on a pin? What should be in the description? How often should we be pinning? And like, what is sort of best practices for getting started on Pinterest for your business?

Kelsey Vetter: Yes, The very first thing you’re gonna want to do is start a Pinterest for Business account, you can go to pinterest.business.com, and set up a free account, it’s super simple, just follow the steps and get that going. You can also convert any personal account to a business account. But I don’t recommend that if you plan to continue using that personal account for your own personal stuff, you definitely want to keep your business and personal Pinterest completely separate. So set up a Pinterest for Business account. And then because Pinterest is a search engine, the second step is doing that keyword research. So the easiest way to do this is to head to Pinterest and type in the Pinterest search bar, whatever you would search if you wanted to find your own content. So that could be baby sleep tips, how to avoid the four-month sleep regression or anything kind that your clients are asking you they’re probably asking Pinterest as well. So start typing that into the Pinterest search bar. And then Pinterest will show a drop-down menu of suggested search terms based on what you typed in. Those are all keywords. So you’re going to want to take note of all of those to write those down. Repeat that process for all of your content pillars. So you have a list of maybe 50 to 100 keywords kind of saved for later. Once you have your keywords go back to your Pinterest for Business account, you’re gonna want to put those Pinterest keywords in a bunch of different places. So first in your display name. So your display name is searchable so if you put a keyword in there that says baby sleep tips and I go to the Pinterest search bar and I type baby sleep tips. It’s possible that your profile will come up and I can click on you and follow you and consume your content. This is just a really great way to get people familiar with your brand. So your display name, your bio, you want to put keywords in there as well. And you want to set up eight to 10 boards to start and you want to name those boards. Keywords make them very straightforward keywords. And a lot of people like to make them really cutesy, little titles, but board titles are actually searchable. So make those a keyword as well. And then fill out your board descriptions with keywords. So make sure you’re putting keywords and all those places in your profile to kind of get you set up for success. Then the next thing you’re gonna want to do that I always recommend is starting with pin design templates. So you can purchase these on something like creative market.com, or they sell them on Etsy, or you can just get them for free on Canva. Start with a pack of maybe 10 templates of pin designs that you can work from so you’re not starting from scratch every single time that you’re creating a new pin. So get your 10 templates set up. You’ve got your business account, you’ve got your keyword research, you’ve got your templates, and then it’s time to start creating your pins. So you want to make sure that you’re pinning one pin a day. Pinterest is huge with consistency. You can’t just pin a lot one day and then not pin the next day or not pin for the next two weeks, you want to make sure that you’re scheduling out pins every single day, which you can do right within Pinterest, it’s very straightforward. And you want to make sure that your images are always fresh. So a fresh pin means you can use let’s say you have one blog post, you can create 15 different images for that one blog post, you can even use the same pin title, the same pin description, just make sure that you’re using a brand new image every time which is why you’re gonna want to have those templates already set up, you can just swap out a picture, swap out the title, and you’ve got a fresh pin. So one pin a day. And when you are uploading those pins to Pinterest, make sure you’re using keywords in your text overlay on your pin design in your pin title, and in your pin description. So keywords go on your profile keywords go in your pins, all of this helps the Pinterest algorithm understand your content and show it to the right people. So you’ve got your Pinterest for Business account, you did your keyword research, you got your templates, and you are pinning one pin a day. Then I recommend pinning one idea pin a week, which is kind of like a video pin feature on Pinterest.

Jayne Havens: Yes, Talk a little bit about idea pins. They’re new-ish, right? And they’re sort of Pinterest’s response to tick-tock and reels.

Kelsey Vetter: Yes tick-tock and reels. And you can certainly repurpose your tick-tock videos and your reels onto Pinterest idea pins. They are being spread across the platform. I saw a statistic this morning that 1 billion video pins are seen on Pinterest every single day. So it’s I know Yes, it’s a huge number. So I know a lot of people are kind of hesitant to make the video content. It’s not comfortable for all of us to be on camera. But at the end of the day, all the platforms are moving towards short-form video. So Pinterest is no exception. And it’s really important to be showing up with some sort of video content. So idea pins, well, similar to tick-tock are reels, the content that you’re creating for tick-tock and reels is not necessarily going to translate or perform very well on Pinterest, especially if you’re doing a lot of trends. So Pinterest users are looking for something different than they’re looking for on Instagram and Tiktok Instagram and Tiktok. They want to be entertained and laugh. And you know, maybe they want to learn something here and there. But Pinterest users really want to be educated, inspired, shown how to do something, you want to give them information that they want to save for later. So that’s how you can drive engagement via pins. So just keep that in mind. When you’re creating content. It’s good to keep the Pinterest user in mind. Otherwise, your idea pins might not perform very well. If you’re just kind of following the trends from the other platforms, you really want to educate the Pinterest users.

Jayne Havens: Yes, can we go back to the templates for a second? This is actually a question. So for those listening, Kelsey is actually my Pinterest manager. We’ve been working together for two or three months. It’s been a really wonderful experience. And I’ve actually been thinking recently I’ve been meaning to ask you. So I’ll just ask you here. Do the Pinterest templates ever get old? You know, we’ve been using them for two or three months? Is it time to change it up and freshen them up? Or is it better to really keep them consistent so that people start to recognize your design style and your branding, and they start to know you? Does that make sense?

Kelsey Vetter: Yes, definitely. I always recommend your templates should definitely be on a brand like we use all your branding colors and your branding fonts. But over time, you can take a look at which pin designs are performing the best and which pin designs are performing the worst, and you can change it, so typically after about three months of working with a client, all non-performing designs are the ones any pin designs that aren’t performing well. I’ll amp up the ones that are performing well. And then add in some new ones that kind of mimic the ones that are doing really well. So Pinterest is all about testing and seeing what’s performing well, and what users are actually responding to, and adapting your strategy from there. So it’s definitely something that you need to be actively looking at what’s doing well, and tweaking your strategy and tweaking your designs as you go. Because you’re never really going to know right away what the users are going to respond to or not.

Jayne Havens: Yes, Pinterest actually is really great. As far as analytics are concerned, I’ve loved getting your monthly reports at the end of every month and see. Can you tell us sort some of the things that can be reported by Pinterest every month, I know you can see like the number of views or users or clicks? Can you sort of give us a rundown of what that looks like?

Kelsey Vetter: Yes, definitely. So that’s one of the main reasons that you’re going to want a Pinterest for a Business account because you have access to all these analytics, I recommend looking at statistics every single month. Pinterest is kind of a long-term platform. It’s not good to be obsessed with the analytics, don’t look at them every single day. If you should really see that your analytics numbers are rising over a three-month period. If they’re not, then your strategy should be adjusted. But Pinterest analytics can tell you the views and the number of impressions, which means the number of times that your pins have been seen on the screen, it will also tell you your engaged audience. So you know who was engaging with you and how many people if you’re getting repeat engagements, which for a coach would be a very good thing because you want people engaging with more than one of your pins, it means they’re really invested in your brand. And they’re interested in what you’re doing and your services. You can see the number of outbound clicks, which is by far the most important metric. A lot of people focus on views and impressions because we’re kind of used to that with other platforms and that number is always the biggest. So it’s exciting. But at the end of the day, if you have 100,000 monthly views or impressions, but you’re only getting 10 clicks to your website, there’s a disconnect there, there’s something’s not working, you want to make sure that you’re getting more clicks to your website every single month. Your impressions just aren’t just growing and that’s it. So analytics are really important to kind of assess how your account is doing. You can see the views, your engaged audience, and your outbound clicks, I would say those are the most important metrics to take a look at. You can also measure your saves which on Pinterest is great, because maybe you use Pinterest users or planners for example, for holidays, on Pinterest, users will plan nine months in advance. So you can imagine that expectant mothers and new mothers will be planning. As soon as they find out they’re pregnant, how to get their babies to sleep. If you’re getting a lot of saves on your pins, and not a lot of outbound clicks yet, just be patient because those saves will turn into outbound clicks in the future.

Jayne Havens: I love that is such a great point. So for someone that’s ready to grow their presence, and maybe even ready to hire a Pinterest manager. And for the record, like this conversation, I already have a Pinterest manager. But if I didn’t, I would definitely want to hire one after listening to you talk. Because for those of us that are not super tech-savvy, you make it sound easy, but it’s a lot of work. With Pinterest there’s a lot going on behind the scenes between the creative side and the analytical side. Like there’s a lot to be done. So for those of us that are ready to hire a Pinterest manager, how do you know who to hire? How do you know if somebody actually knows what to do? What needs to be in place before hiring an expert? 

Kelsey VetterYes. definitely. Pinterest is a lot of work. I always tell people like yes, it’s my full-time job and definitely a lot of work that you can turn into a full-time job. But you can also put, I don’t want to deter anyone from trying to DIY their Pinterest account as well. Because you can definitely put some systems in place to make it more efficient for you like the templates and scheduling and things like that. But if you do want to hire a Pinterest manager, I would say back to what we were talking about before if I would always ask for their outbound click rate for their current clients. So if they’re showing that I’m getting all these impressions from my clients. That’s incredible. But are you getting clicks to their website, because again, there’s a disconnect if you’re getting a lot of impressions and views? But at the end of the day, what we want is people on our website, so that won’t happen right away. If you just set up your Pinterest account. Don’t expect to get hundreds and 1000s of clicks. You know in month one it will grow over time. But always ask when hiring a Pinterest manager to see their outbound click right and if they show you a number and you say that’s great, that would totally impact my business. Perfect. That’s someone that you can work with, but if they’re just showing you the views or the impressions and they’re really high, but they’re getting 1020 clicks a month to their client’s website, that’s not someone that you’d really want to work with. Before hiring a Pinterest manager, I would say what you need to have in place is number one, a blog. Number two, a lead magnet of some sort, Capture emails and get those leads into your funnel, and then an email list where you can market to those leads. That way, you’re making the most advantage of those new leads, and that new traffic and you’re not kind of just getting that traffic and then doing nothing with it.

Jayne Havens: Right! Because people are very sort of fickle when it comes to searching around on the internet, right? They bounce onto one website, and then another website, and then another and they’re comparing, and then they can’t even remember the website that they landed on first. So we really need to not just have them land on our website, but capture their information so that we can continue to warm up that lead and eventually turn it into a client.

Kelsey Vetter: Absolutely. Something that you’re doing a great job of the day in with your Pinterest account is because you are already building community within your Facebook group. I think a lot of people overlook the community aspect on Pinterest because it’s a search engine. It’s not really a social platform. But you reach out to clients who are saviors or leads who save your pins and engage with your content. And you say, Hey, if you like my pins, why don’t you join us in our Facebook group, and that’s working for you. You’re leaving them to where you’re already building community, and you’re able to convert them into clients faster. So don’t overlook engagement and community on Pinterest as well. Because that can really help convert those leads into paying clients a little bit faster.

Jayne Havens: Yes and speaking of a little bit faster, How long does it actually take to see movement on Pinterest.

Kelsey Vetter: In Pinterest is truly a long-term platform, don’t expect to get those 1000s of clicks overnight, it can take 6 to 12 to even 18 months to really start getting those high number of clicks to your website. But the good thing about Pinterest is that it will drive traffic while a single pin could drive traffic to your website for literally years to come. Whereas on Facebook or Instagram posts last maybe a day, maybe 48 hours, I have so many clients come to me, yourself included, that say a single pin that I pinned back in 2019, or 2013, I’ve even heard is still the number one traffic driver to my website to this day. So I want to continue with Pinterest marketing. So it takes time. You know, when you’re just starting out, you’re probably going to expect to see maybe 20 to 30 clicks to your website. Then month two, maybe 50 to 60, month three, maybe 100 to 300. It should be progressively growing like that. But don’t expect it to kind of go viral. That’s not really a thing on Pinterest like it is on the other platforms. Be patient with it be consistent, and continue to show up. If you put in the work now it will continue to drive traffic for you and it will be worth it in the long run.

Jayne Havens: Yes, that was the reason why I hired you. 

Kelsey Vetter: My clients tell me that. 

Jayne Havens: Yes. There was a pin that wasn’t even my pin. I wasn’t even really on Pinterest at the time. But I had done an interview with somebody, a video interview, and I guess they put it onto their blog and pinned it. And I was getting tons of inquiries, not tons. But considering this wasn’t even my pin. It wasn’t even my blog. I was getting tons of inquiries, people telling me they found me on Pinterest. I wasn’t even really on Pinterest. But there was this one pin that was sharing information about my offer. People were finding me based on that pin. That was from several years ago, as you said and that really showed me, Ok, if this one pin that was put there years ago, is still generating traffic towards my offer. What would happen if I put up hundreds or 1000s of pins towards my offer? Right. So that was the whole reason why I decided to get started with Pinterest. And I think it’s sort of brilliant. Moms are on Pinterest. You know this is moms are on Pinterest to be creative, to be organized to all sorts of things right? This is where moms are going to get their information and get their act together in all aspects of life. So I think sleep is no different.

Kelsey Vetter: Exactly. It’s no different if you go to Pinterest and search, you know, babies’ sleep training or sleep tips or anything like that. You’ll see tons and tons and tons of pins that tell you that audience and that target market, they’re hanging out on Pinterest so it’s really if you want to grow your business to market to them.

Jayne Havens: Briefly run us through what it looks like to run ads on Pinterest honestly, I didn’t even realize that Pinterest ads were a thing but I guess of course they are just like with anything else. Our ads are necessary at a certain point to sort of have really amp up your efforts on Pinterest, or can you be successful on Pinterest long term without them.

Kelsey Vetter: I do not ever promote that ads are unnecessary. Unless you’re a product seller. I think for product sellers, they’re crucial. But for service-based businesses and coaches, I firmly believe in the power of organic Pinterest marketing. When you first sign up for your business account, you’ll get an ad credit, you can run some ads if you want. But honestly, I’m not an ad expert. I just specialize in organic Pinterest marketing. I’ve seen incredible results without having to spend a single dollar on ads. So I think that going forward, Pinterest is pushing ads a little bit more. But again, I think that’s more gonna be product sellers, for service-based businesses. Keep giving out that free content, make video content and get people into your ecosystem, and you’re gonna convert them into clients.

Jayne Havens: Yes, I love that. Actually, that was another reason for why I was interested in Pinterest. Because, if you think about it, whenever I would speak to somebody about SEO, let’s hire somebody to help me with my SEO. A lot of them told me that will help you with your SEO, But, you should also do Google ads at the same time, right. So then you’re paying for someone to help you with SEO. Then you also have to have a budget for the ads, right. But I liked that with Pinterest, I just had to have a budget to hire you. I didn’t have to have another budget on top of that, to pay for ads. And now I’m sort of realizing that SEO is sort of the same thing. I never paid for Google Ads either. With the blogging efforts and being really thoughtful and purposeful about my website and all of the keywords and all of that, I’m actually seeing good results there too. So I guess we’re all learning as we go.

Kelsey Vetter: Pinterest will help with your Google SEO as well. I know we’ve had that conversation. But if you are actively targeting certain keywords on Pinterest, as well as on your website, it will help you rank higher on Google as well. So Pinterest. Yes, it’s just the best. 

Jayne Havens: Yes, I have noticed that in the past, I would say probably two to three months and the amount of time that you and I have been working together. My rankings on Google have definitely increased. So even if I can’t track every single lead back to Pinterest, I think there’s like a greater good that’s going on behind the scenes that is ultimately benefiting my business, which is huge.

Kelsey Vetter: Definitely one of the other things that I like to talk about with Pinterest, as well as just brand awareness and brand trust. If I see a creator or a business or a brand on Instagram, I see them on Tik Tok, I see them on Pinterest, I’m way more likely to trust them and give them my money because they’re in all the places where I am right. So I think it’s really important to diversify your platforms and not just be relying solely on Instagram or whatever platform that you choose to grow your business.

Jayne Havens: Yes. So before we wrap up, I think you had some free resources to share with our audience. I will of course link them in the show notes. But can you tell us a bit about the resources that you wanted to share with us?

Kelsey Vetter: Yes, I have got the probably the most helpful resource I have is the ultimate Business Account Setup Checklist. So it walks you through everything we talked about in this podcast and more about getting started on Pinterest. If you’re starting from scratch, you have no account yet. Go download that checklist and it will walk you through every single step from setting up a business account to starting to pin so it’s everything that you need. I also have some mini-courses that teach you how to do keyword research and implement idea pins and schedule your Pinterest pins. So you can just sit down twice a month with your Pinterest account and get your pin scheduled and you don’t have to worry about being on there every single day, which is another one of the reasons I love Pinterest because, on Instagram, you can’t really take a day off but on Pinterest, you can.

Jayne Havens: I will make sure that all of this goes in the show notes. Then also tell us before we wrap up where people can find you if they’re ready to actually hire a Pinterest manager and would like some support to get all of this up and running and off the ground. How can they find you?

Kelsey Vetter: Absolutely. You can find me on my website. It’s Kelseyvetter.com or on Instagram, tick-tock and of course Pinterest at Kelsey Federico.

Jayne Havens: Perfect. Kelsey, thank you so much for chatting with me today. I have loved working with you and I’m grateful that you were willing to share your expertise with my audience today.

Kelsey Vetter: Likewise, and I really appreciate you having me on. Bye-bye.

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