Interested in becoming a sleep consultant? 

Jayne Havens is a certified sleep consultant and the founder of Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. As a leader in the industry, Jayne advocates for healthy sleep hygiene for children of all ages. Jayne launched her comprehensive sleep consultant certification course so she could train and mentor others to work in this emerging industry.

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The Value of a Business Best Friend with Nas Echeverria

The Value of a Business Best Friend

Nas Echeverria is the Founder of Next Level Up CEO and the Easy Yes Method. Over the last 11 years she’s worked with over 400 coaches, consultants and healers to 2-5x their revenue, and turn strangers and lurkers into premium clients in just 7 days. She also happens to be my business strategist and Business BFF. 

On this episode, Nas and I unpack:

  • The difference between a strategic partner and a Business BFF
  • The benefits of having this type of relationship, and what to look for in a Business BFF
  • How these relationships can really help you to grow as an entrepreneur 




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Intro: Welcome to Becoming a Sleep Consultant! I’m your host Jayne Havens, a certified sleep consultant and founder of both Snooze Fest by Jayne Havens and Center for Pediatric Sleep Management. On this podcast, I’ll be discussing the business side of sleep consulting. You’ll have an insider’s view on launching, growing, and even scaling a sleep consulting business. This is not a podcast about sleep training. This is a podcast about business building and entrepreneurship.

Jayne Havens: Nas Echeverria is the Founder of Next Level Up CEO and the Easy Yes Method. Over the last 11 years, she’s worked with over 400 coaches, consultants, and healers to 2-5x their revenue, and turn strangers and lurkers into premium clients in just 7 days. She also happens to be my business strategist and business BFF. Nas, welcome to the podcast. I’m so excited to chat with you today.

Nas Echeverria: Yey. Thank you so much for having me, Miss Jayne. I can’t wait to be here as well.

Jayne Havens: While I think that entrepreneurship is the most thrilling journey of all time, it can also be really lonely, right? That’s what I wanted to talk to you about today. I wanted to bring you on because you are my business BFF, and you keep me from being super lonely, right? Why do you think it’s so important to have a business best friend?

Nas Echeverria: It’s such a good conversation, because I feel like no one really talks about that entrepreneurship is super lonely. I think it’s important because we go through a huge roller coaster of emotions. It’s just that’s what entrepreneurship is. You’re getting yourself into this rollercoaster of ups and downs. I think that it can be really lonely to feel like you’re doing that alone, or there’s something wrong with you, or there’s something happening. I think if you look at it, any other job that anyone has — whether it’s a corporate or a restaurant job — you have relationships, right? You have people that you’re talking to that you’re commiserating with and sharing with. Like entrepreneurship, you’re in this bubble of like, “It’s just me. I’m just doing this alone.” It can just be really hard and disheartening to not have someone to bounce ideas off of, share wins with, or just have goofy moments together about complaining about what’s happening in the world. I just think that’s important.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I agree. I think that another sort of aspect to all of this is that people who are not involved in the entrepreneurial space just flat out don’t understand what we do all day. I have a lot of friends who have conventional, typical jobs. They’re teachers, they’re accountants, they’re lawyers, whatever. They have no idea what I do all day. To talk to them about it, feels really weird, like I’m doing this really weird work. I like getting online and talking to you because you understand what I do. You get it. It makes me feel less alone.

Nas Echeverria: I know. It totally does. You’re totally right. Because when I talk to friends, they’re like, “What do you do?” I am a business strategist. They’re just like, “What? I don’t get it.” Just everything about it is confusing. So, you don’t go into an office, and you run your own. I have to spend all this time explaining. Oftentimes, you’re right. Their thoughts are probably like I’m just sitting at home and doing nothing.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, and I also think it’s weird how we all have these internet friends. You’re my best friend on the internet, right? One day, we’re going to meet in real life. It’s so weird that we’ve never met in real life, right? I know all about your animals and your kids and that you like hip hop music. I feel like I know everything about you, but we never hung out face to face. It’s super weird, but it’s also the best.

Nas Echeverria: It is. I actually remember. For a quick, funny story, I remember asking you one time how tall are you. My guess, as an online friend, you could be six foot tall, and I would have never had any idea.

Jayne Havens: That’s so funny. Yeah, I know. Let’s talk about business BFFs versus meaningful connections. Because I think those are two different things. I’m sure people are listening to us thinking like, okay, I know Jayne is always talking about how important it is to make these meaningful and strategic connections so that you can grow your business. But that’s not really quite what we’re talking about here when we’re talking about business BFFs, right? So, let’s unpack the differences between a strategic alliance, like a meaningful business connection, versus a business bestie.

Nas Echeverria: Well, I think with a Strategic Business Alliance, it’s very like we’re looking at it for the purpose of how can this deliver more business to me. Just that’s the way I look at it. How can we support each other? You’re usually going to be serving similar audiences. You’re going to have all that. Business bestie, to me, is like there’s no end game. We’re not sitting here thinking how can I use her to help me. Not to say that we’re doing that in a negative way in business alliances, but just there’s a different purpose. Business besties is like I just want to run to someone when I’m having a crappy day and things feel hard, and be like, “Oh my gosh, this is what’s happening,” or to celebrate, like, “Hey, I’m doing this. I’d love to hear your thoughts.” We’re just like in any other friendship. You’re just relating to each other and bouncing ideas off of each other. But you’re not looking at it from a purpose of, how am I going to leverage this relationship in order to further my business?

Jayne Havens: I like that you and I are sort of doing very similar things in our businesses, but our businesses are completely different. That’s what I love most about our relationship, besides just like our friendship. But I love the value that we bring to one another because we’re not in competition. We’re not in the same field. We’re not doing the same thing and yet, we’re leveraging the same resources, right?

Nas Echeverria: Yes.

Jayne Havens: I remember when you started doing some ads, and I’m like, “Oh, tell me everything you know about that. I’ve never done ads.” Then maybe I’m doing something interesting, and you’re like — I don’t know what I do that you don’t do. I feel like you do everything, that I think about doing what you do.

Nas Echeverria: Google ads.

Jayne Havens: Google ads. Okay. I’m playing around with Google ads, and you’re not. So, you’re like, “Tell me what’s going on. Give me the scoop.” We can learn from each other in a way that is not competitive. We’re literally just like on our own journeys, happened to be checking the boxes at similar times. Our pitstops are somewhat similar. We’re exploring virtual assistants or launching a podcast, right? All of these things that we’re sort of figuring out together but doing it completely differently.

Nas Echeverria: But I think it’s also cool, because it’s almost like having two brains. Because in any situation, I could be like, I’m doing this. It’s not that we’re all necessarily going to — it’s not like we’re feeding off of each other, but it is fun to be like, “Oh, you’re doing this for Google ads.” Then I might ask you some questions. You’re like, “I don’t know. I didn’t think about that.” Or same thing with you, to me, where you’re like, “What about this?” I was like, “I don’t know, I haven’t thought about that.” It sparks this opportunity and momentum through it inadvertently, and it’s like having two brains as part of the process, too. So it’s kind of fun.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, so, let’s use the example that you brought up right before we hit record. Nas asked me right before we hit record. She’s like, “So, what do you want to get out of this? What’s your end game for this podcast?” I’m like, “I don’t know. I don’t have one.” I just want to show up and be cheerful and have a great conversation. I hope that the audience enjoys it, and they like me, and they’re inspired. I have no end game. Nas, because she’s a strategist, she wants an end game. Like, “What is the purpose of this podcast? Where are you going to lead them to? What button are they going to click next?” That is not how I roll.

But that’s what’s so amazing about the two of our brains together. It’s that I think, actually, sometimes, you could use a little spaghetti on the wall, which is my — that is how I roll, right? I’ll come throw some spaghetti at your wall if you want me to. I just put it all out there and see what sticks. Nas has a system and a process. She’s organized, and she has an end game for everything. I love that the two of us just battle back and forth about which makes more sense. I don’t think it’s one versus the other in all circumstances. There are times when what you do makes perfect sense, and there are times when what I do makes perfect sense. We both learn from one another.

Nas Echeverria: I love that because you’re so right. Because sometimes I can just tell. She knows I’m going to come at her with like, “So, what is the strategy here, Jayne?” I can tell she’s eye rolling me when she’s like, “Nas, I don’t know. You know me. I just go at it.” It’s such a perfect relationship, though. Because we are very, very similar in certain core beliefs and the way we look at business and how it’s a long-term plan. But then, at the way we approach our business, we approach it totally differently, which is, by the way, the magic of business that we can both be wildly successful and do these totally different ways. I feel, in a way, we challenge each other. Because you’re right. There are some times where I envy the fact that you come up with a decision at 8am and by 9am, you’re running with it. Hold on. We’ve got to figure this out. So, I feel like it’s a good balance because we learn from each other, and it challenges us to see things from a different perspective. I think it’s fun.

Jayne Havens: It is really fun. This is fun. We have not been on Zoom together in so long. Every now and then, I just want to go back into my old emails from when Nas and I were working together, and just hop onto our calendar just because I have the leg. I just feel like I’m here. Let’s have lunch. But I haven’t done that yet. I’m going to do that maybe next week. We’ll have lunch.

Nas Echeverria: I know. Now I’m going to see it coming, or I’m going to be like, “Why has she not gotten on my calendar after telling the world about this opportunity she’s putting together?”

Jayne Havens: I feel like we’ve articulated already a little bit some of the ways in which we jive nicely together, but I want to dig deeper into that. You touched on the fact that you and I both have the same drive. I would agree with that. We have the same drive. We have the same fire. We’re always both sort of looking to learn new things. What are some other things that make you and I work?

Nas Echeverria: I think it’s just, yeah, we have a very similar perspective in terms of long term, like this business is how this looks. So, I think that, to me, was what really sparked our relationship because I felt like it was hard to find someone who look at things that way. I also think it’s just the family dynamic of we’re very like, “I’m going to have time with my family, and my business is going to be fine.” Just a lot of the things that are both business and personal that come together, just from our families and you talk about your parents, and I’m talking about my parents. They were entrepreneurs. It’s just a lot that we jive off of, that I think we get each other. Just like with friendship, you get each other. Yeah, I think that we both look at our businesses from the same perspective. We’re both really freaking go-getters. We don’t slow down from the sense of I know where I want to go. We’re also brutally honest.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, totally.

Nas Echeverria: Which, by the way, most people might see as a negative of having two brutally honest people, but I feel it works really well. Because you’ll call me on my stuff, and I’ll call you on yours.

Jayne Havens: I was digging up. So, we rescheduled this podcast episode several times. I was digging into my emails to find the bio that Nas sent me, so that I could read it in the beginning of this podcast. I sent it to her last night. I was like, “This is what you sent me? This sucks.”

Nas Echeverria: You know what? I took a page out of Jayne’s book though. I was like, “I’m not changing it. Bye.”

Jayne Havens: Right. I was like, “This is terrible.” It wasn’t terrible. It’s just I was expecting more from her. It was great. It was straight. It was to the point. It’s fine. But I gave her a hard time about it because I could. That’s the way that we work. I think that if Nas didn’t have a strong head on her shoulders and thick skin, I would have hurt her feelings. But I know that I can say things to her. She can just be like, “She’s being stupid,” and we can move on.

Nas Echeverria: Yes, I feel that, by the way, is one of those unseen things that I feel a lot of times we do have to censor ourselves to be a little bit more not to hurt people’s feelings. I feel like with you and I, it’s just very easy. I’m not worried.

Jayne Havens: I’m comfortable hurting your feelings.

Nas Echeverria: Same. I got to call her out. She will just be like, “Whatever Nas.” We don’t have hard feelings against it. I think we just have established that type of relationship that we know that we both have strong personalities.

Jayne Havens: So, let’s talk about how we actually communicate. Because this is something that I think people wonder. Okay. If your business bestie lives across the country, which is the case for NAS and I, how do we actually keep in touch? What does that look like? I think it can look different for different people. But for us, it’s mostly Voxer, right?

Nas Echeverria: Oh my gosh, yeah. We’re both busy.

Jayne Havens: I’ll be driving, and I’ll have a funny thought. I always love to crank up my country music when I’m Voxing Nas, because I know that she just thinks that that’s so ridiculous that I listened to countries. I’m like, I’m going to Vox NAS. I’m going to crank up my country, dip my toes in the water. She’s like, “What are you listening to?” That’s just part of our banter. It just sets the tone for the way the conversation is going to go, right?

Nas Echeverria: It totally does. I feel like I know your kids. You know my kids. I’ve had little Voxer conversations with your kids and stuff. I just feel like it totally it’s that we’re just both really busy. I don’t know. I can’t really see you in Zoom, just like looking at each other.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I would like to Zoom more with you, actually.

Nas Echeverria: Okay. Maybe we would just sit there and be looking at each other. I think it’s just because you and I are both in the moment of doing things, and it’s like sending each other a message. I feel like it’s whatever is going to be easy. I think a lot of times people put a lot of pressure on how to make the relationship look a certain way. You and I are just like, I’m going to Voxer you when I have a minute or wherever I’m at and whatever I’m doing, when you’re sneaking into your brother’s pool and stuff like that.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, exactly. I think the important part is to be authentic, to be yourself. True friendships are based on actual meet. It has to go beyond surface level. When Nas and I worked together, she helped me — what was it? Like a year ago at this point, probably?

Nas Echeverria: Yeah.

Jayne Havens: At that point, we were just sort of getting to know each other, trying to figure each other out. At that point, it was a little bit more one sided because Nas was specifically helping me, which was hugely valuable, by the way. Thank you. But at a certain point, when a friendship develops — whether it’s in real life, or in business, on the internet, in person — you got to get beyond the pleasantries. We really sort of dug deep and figured out how we really can best support each other. I know that whenever I am struggling mentally in my business, which happens all the time — nobody believes that but I’m a total headcase when it comes to business sometimes — Nas will always dig me out of the gutter and remind me and get me back to my why. You’re really good at that. I’m always like, “I want to go, go go. I want to grow, grow, grow.” You’re like, “Why?”

Nas Echeverria: We get philosophical in our conversations.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, and I love that. Because sometimes I don’t have anybody else to do that with. Nobody else asks me those tough questions and really makes me hone in on why I’m doing all of this.

Nas Echeverria: Well, I think that’s the power of a relationship, right? When you have a friendship that doesn’t feel like you’re just trying to build it for a certain purpose. We go a little deeper. I know you, and I know what you want. I know how to help you see that, and you know what I want. You know where I’m going. You can, again, help me see that. I think that oftentimes, we overlook the aspect of, like you said, business is hard. A lot of it is a mental game. A lot of it is just like the day to day mental game of staying with things, or feeling frustrated, or whatever’s happening.

Oftentimes, we’re too close to it ourselves. Family is great. We both have supportive husbands and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, they’re going to tell you what you want to hear a lot of times. They don’t understand it from that aspect. So, I think, again, being able to have these deeper conversations that pull you out and let you take a step back from your business and see the whole thing rather than just in the moment is just so powerful.

Again, I think without a business bestie, you’re left trying to do it on your own and figure out all those things by yourself. To me, it’s just so much easier. We can literally have a five-minute back and forth Voxer conversation, where it gets really real really quickly. We’ll get to the heart of things. Both of us just going back and forth. I’ll leave feeling really good about like, okay. This, I totally get where she’s coming from, and I feel really good about this. I just think it works really well to have that.

Jayne Havens: I’m laughing to myself, because I feel like sometimes in those conversations, I leave feeling like crap about myself. Because you always point out all the things that I’m not thinking of. I’m like, “Well, what am I even doing here?” If I didn’t have you, my head would not be on straight sometimes.

Nas Echeverria: But I think, again, I think that’s the benefit of us in our balance. It’s that I go deep, and you just go big. You’re like you’re all in. So, I think it’s good. It’s literally finding like a good spouse, right? One of you is going to have a certain personality, and one of you is going to have another. I always go really deep and make you rethink, so that you see the bigger picture. You always make me really think big and like, hey, sometimes it just doesn’t work out. Sometimes you just do things, and you see how it goes from there.

Jayne Havens: I think we both think big. I’ll never forget when I first spoke to you, and you were asking me about my goals. I didn’t have any goals. I literally didn’t have any goals. I was like I just want to do better than I’m doing right now. I just want to grow. That was literally my only goal. You pressed me so hard to put an actual benchmark on myself, which felt really, really scary. Another thing that you’ve done to me, for me, is you’ve pointed out that — I don’t even know how to articulate this. What do you always say to me? That I’m like scared to be successful or something like that.

Nas Echeverria: I tell her she has a fear of success, and she laughs at me every single time.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I couldn’t even remember what it was because it’s so absurd. But it’s probably true. It’s probably true. Nas tells me that I have a fear of success, which is, I think, absurd. She must be right, because she’s right about most things. But she’s getting so deep inside my brain to a place that I’m not even going to. I’m just not even there. Because I’m off thinking about, I don’t know, something else that I haven’t done that I need to do. I’m just not getting philosophical on myself at all. But I appreciate it that you do that for me.

Nas Echeverria: That’s what I mean. I feel like you’re one of those people who like — you just jump. You’re one of those people that you don’t overthink it. You just take the jump. You make that leap. To me, that’s so powerful because you trust yourself. You trust the outcome so much that you’re like, “I don’t care if I fall. I don’t care if I do this, or it doesn’t work.” You’re just very like, “I’ll jump in, and I’ll figure it out as I go.”

To me, it’s just so — that’s what I’m saying. I look at you, and I’m like, it’s so powerful when I see you literally at 8 AM say one thing, and by 9am you’re like, “I’m doing with it. We’re at it.” Because I feel like, again, I go deep. I’m like, I want to see the whole picture. You’re like, I see this step in front of me, and I’m going to freaking take it. I’ll figure out the next step after and the next step after. So, I think that there’s that ability for both of us to recognize that those are both valuable traits to have. They both serve their purpose. I will tell you, every time you tell me something like that, I literally sit there and I’m like, “Alright, I’m just going to jump. I’m just going to do this thing and not overthink it, and not spend too much time around it.” I think that’s the power of the different personalities.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, the balance. I was listening to a podcast the other day. It was an interview with Lo Bosworth. Remember her from The O.C.? She’s actually a brilliant business person, by the way, which you would never imagine. But she is. The person who was interviewing her pointed out that she was just so good at making decisions. She just made decisions all day. All day long, she just like made choices and decisions, and never got stuck on anything. That’s how she was able to grow so fast. I really identify with that. Somebody put something on me, and it’s like yes or no. It’s like no, or, yes, or whatever. It doesn’t even matter. Let’s just decide to move on.

Nas Echeverria: You’re the fastest decision-maker I have ever met. They’re not even just that you make fast decisions. You make bold decisions, and you feel good about them. I think that’s a differing factor. Because it’s not hard to make fast decisions, but it’s hard to make a fast decision and then feel really freaking good about it. I feel like you make a decision. Somehow, in 15 minutes, you’re all in on that thing. I’m like, “How are you there yet?” I think that, to me, is so cool to watch. Because you can get your brain wrapped around being fully in on something in such a short period of time.

Jayne Havens: Then I Voxed you about it. You’re like, “Well, did you think about this?” I’m like, “Crap. No.”

Nas Echeverria: I’m a Debbie Downer. I was like, “Did you think for your strategy?” She’s always like, “No, Nas.” But again, a powerful relationship is you, hopefully, aren’t super let down because you come out of it being — you literally say to me. You’re like, “No, Nas. I’m just going in. This is what I’m doing.” I’m always like, “Okay. Cool. Have fun. Tell me how it goes. We’ll talk about it when it gets to the next step.” I feel like that works well, too. Because you get it, and you’re just like, “I’m going to do it my way. I’m awesome.” I’m here no matter what. I just wanted to know.

Jayne Havens: Totally. Do you have any other business BFF besides me? I feel like you do.

Nas Echeverria: I do. You know what? I don’t know. You have business BFFs that you’ve never actually worked with.

Jayne Havens: What do you mean?

Nas Echeverria: Like you and I, we both worked together and then—

Jayne Havens: Like I hired you, yeah.

Nas Echeverria: Like my other business BFFs, I’ve worked with them in some capacity whether they’ve been my client or I’ve been their client. I don’t know how you just make business BFFs. She makes business BFFs wherever she goes. That’s just like—

Jayne Havens: I do. I become friends with strangers on the internet, which I think they tell you not to do that. But I have all of these online friends.

Nas Echeverria: I love it.

Jayne Havens: I do. What happens is I will join somebody’s Facebook group. I’ll binge their content. They’ll message me because they’re good at connecting. It won’t just be a conversation like they have with everybody else. I don’t know. If I’m interested in them and I think they’re smart and I think what they’re doing is impressive and valuable, then I want to talk to them more. Not necessarily because I want to hire them, but because I want to learn from them. I want to just vibe with them. I don’t know. Some of the people who I just randomly found online — that sounds so creepy, but it’s true — have become good friends of mine.

Nas Echeverria: I have a good question for you. Do you think you’re an extrovert?

Jayne Havens: Yeah.

Nas Echeverria: See, and I’m not. Isn’t that funny? It’s funny because on the internet, I can be whatever. But in real life, I don’t want to go up to people and talk to people. I don’t want to hang out with people for long periods of time. Again, totally different personalities. I think that you’re right. You can just jump into relationships and start having conversations. It’s just super easy. So, I love that — making friends with strangers on the internet.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I totally do that. I totally do that. Your business besties besides me are all people you’ve worked with. Mine are people that I actually originally thought would be strategic alliances. Some of them still are. But then they’ve also become really true friends. So, I think there is some overlap, which maybe is a good way to close the loop on all of this, that sometimes the most meaningful connections, people who you’re reaching out to — I always tell sleep consultants, reach out to family photographers, preschool directors, pediatricians, lactation consultants, doulas. Make these connections and refer business back and forth. I think when you do that really, really well, a friendship sometimes forms. At least, for me, it does. So, I think about all the people who refer business to me, a lot of them have become really good friends. That’s not how the connection initially started. They weren’t my friends first. They were a business connection first. Then we actually just got to know each other and liked each other and became business besties.

Nas Echeverria: Well, I think that’s exactly it. To me, the people I’ve become business besties with, I’ve had some sort of other relationship with first. Then just through conversation and just sharing little bits and pieces, you start to realize that that person is more than just a business relationship. So, I think it is true. Whether or not we realize it, it always starts with one intention. Then you just start to see pieces of that person and realize, oh, this is actually someone I just like talking to, that isn’t always just about business. I think it morphs into a little bit more of that friendship.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, I know that a lot of the women who are enrolled in CPSM are sort of business besties with each other. I can think of a few examples. I’m not going to name their names, but I can think of a few examples of ladies that met through the program. Now they sort of talk offline, and they have their own little private — I don’t know what it looks like. If they’re getting on Zoom, if they’re Voxing, if they’re just Facebook messaging back and forth. But I know that they know about each other’s families. They know about each other’s businesses like the way that we do. So, I guess you can really find your business bestie anywhere.

Nas Echeverria: Anywhere. The same thing with mine, I remember the first time two of my clients sent a picture. They’re like, “We met in real life,” and all this. I was like, “Oh my gosh, that’s so cute.” I think it is. There’s so many different ways to find business besties. You just have to be willing and open to sharing more of yourself. I think that is the scary part for a lot of people, because they come from a corporate background or more like a professional background of you’re supposed to look a certain way when you’re in front of other business people, and you don’t show the real you.

I think that there’s a little bit of vulnerability that happens when you make that shift into whether it was like a relationship with someone who you did business with, or otherwise, letting them get peeks of you and allowing them to see that, that then transitions into friendship.

I think a lot of the people who don’t have business besties, that’s why. It’s that they’re a little nervous about showing that side of them, because they don’t want to be judged, or they don’t want to not look professional. I just think that that’s a thing about entrepreneurship that doesn’t get talked about, that it’s not this stuffy, professional looking thing all the time. We’re allowed to break down some walls and barriers and have conversations that are a little more vulnerable with people that we feel closer with.

Jayne Havens: Vulnerable and then I also think that we sometimes, at least you and I, are comfortable touching on topics that are maybe not as socially acceptable to talk about with people in your real life. Nas will know how much money I make, or she’ll know how much money I’m spending on Google ads, which is not something that I blast around to my friends in real life. So, I feel like we’re able to sort of — I don’t know how to explain this. We’re talking about things that are sometimes maybe a little bit more taboo.

Nas Echeverria: We’re taking away some of the barriers. We’re taking away some of these barriers of like, “I’m not allowed to talk about this,” and being like, “Hey.” I even remember the first time I think a money conversation came up when you had gone to New York to get a ring. I was like, “So, tell me how much it was.” We had this conversation where I feel like it just was very natural. Again, letting ourselves be seen in a way of sharing things. Like you say, it’s uncomfortable sometimes to talk about money and that stuff without feeling very judged about it. So, I think it’s the power of allowing ourselves to do that.

Jayne Havens: Yeah, the taboo topics like money but also the failures. I think, especially with entrepreneurship, we’re always trying to position ourselves to be doing great all the time. It’s like we’re sharing all of our wins. It’s sort of the Instagram versus reality. At least, with Nas, I can share my horrible days and horrible moments just as much as I can share my great one. So, I think that’s really important to have somebody that you can be truly real and honest with. I do try to show up in my business as pretty real. I like to admit that I don’t know it all, or that I don’t have it all figured out. But sometimes people don’t believe me, and Nas believes me.

Nas Echeverria: I’m like, I know you’re a mess. I’ll literally message her and be like,”My kids were on their screens for like four hours yesterday.” I have no shame in it because I needed to get stuff done. We’ll have those conversations about things that I think are, again, a little bit more vulnerable. But I’m open to doing it, and I like being real. I think the same thing with you when you tell me stuff like that. I’ll just be like, “Yeah, I get it,” and we’ll talk it out. Sometimes it’s just venting. Sometimes it’s just being like, “Hey, have you tried this? This might work.” I think, again, it gives us that opportunity to bounce ideas off of each other or to feel we can just let it go and tell someone else about it. Even just simple things like that, people overlook how powerful that is in entrepreneurship.

Jayne Havens: Totally. So, I always give people an opportunity to share where they can find you after this podcast. But I want to be clear that nobody is to reach out to Nas to be her business BFF, because she’s mine. Right? Nobody takes my spot. But if people want to reach out to you to actually learn more about how you can help them, because you are amazing — we didn’t even get to talk about that — I’m going to have Nas back on the podcast soon. I have to beg her to schedule another appointment.

Nas Echeverria: Or you. Her calendar is always full.

Jayne Havens: We’re going to have a whole another conversation to talk about what Nas actually does, because it’s crazy impressive. But if you want to scope her out on the internet, Nas, where can everybody find you?

Nas Echeverria: If you want to stalk me a little bit, I am actually known as the woman who leverages Netflix as my sales system. So, you can go to easyyesleads.com. You can binge watch my mini series where I share how you can become the innovator in your industry and have clients coming to you. I share with you how to leverage my Netflix-inspired sales system and how to retain clients long-term. So, check it out at easyyesleads.com, or I’m on Instagram @nextlevelupCEO, or on Facebook. You could search me by finding Jayne, and I’ll be on her page, I’m sure, or in my Facebook group Next Level Up Female CEOs.

Jayne Havens: Perfect. I’m going to link all of that stuff in the show notes. Thank you so much for chatting with me. I’m so happy that we finally got to connect. It was great seeing you face to face on Zoom today. Thanks for being here.

Nas Echeverria: Same same. Thank you

Outro: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, it would mean so much to me if you would rate, review, and subscribe. When you rate, review, and subscribe, this helps the podcast reach a greater audience. I am so grateful for your support. If you would like to learn more about how you can become a certified sleep consultant, head over to my Facebook Group, Becoming a Sleep Consultant or to my website thecpsm.com. Thanks so much, and I hope you will tune in for the next episode.Lucia 

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